top | item 4118088

Beautiful Job Description: Intrinsically Motivated Full Stack Product Hacker

50 points| pumainmotion | 13 years ago |codeascraft.etsy.com

22 comments

order

simonsarris|13 years ago

Cute, but maybe a little too out cute.

> You are prone to quixotic behavior.

They are looking for people who are prone to irrational, unrealistic behavior? It makes for nice prose but I have a feeling that some of the personality disorders that could be described by their phrasing wouldn't be particularly welcome.

> Full-stack.

What stack?

No really, you're hiring me for the full stack. What is the stack?

Would I ever be writing a line of CSS? Or JavaScript? Or Ruby? SQL?

At least they say "Largely PHP" a little bit later, but that makes me wonder just what their definition of full-stack is.

I appreciate pleasant writing for the sake of it, but there's a lot of information they could have imparted but chose not to. I wonder if they'd respond favorably if I actually replied in kind. Do they really want quixotic behavior? Is being scant on technical details an OK thing for a technical job posting?

I'm tempted to send a cover letter talking about how the best CSS (would I be writing CSS?) is made with oil paint and that I wear a tea cozy for a hat. I could claim to have independently discovered punctuation and talk about how I navigate code by wind chime.

asm|13 years ago

re Quixotic Behavior: We want people who are comfortable taking a stand on an issue and going off on a mission to solve the problem. Not every great idea seems reasonable before people see it working.

re Full-Stack: We're looking for people who design and build full systems from low to high levels. Some have made their career working just as a front- or back-end hacker. We want to meet people who wouldn't dream of letting someone else take half their work or who would be comfortable throwing part of the problem over the fence. People that are a good fit probably don't care that much about what the stack is beyond some reasonable constraints.

If you end up sending that cover letter there's a chance that we'd all be amused enough to read your resume.

alinajaf|13 years ago

Question for HN, how do you generally feel about the 'Intrinsically Motivated' requirement?

I'm deeply motivated about a great many things that are important to me, but helping to implement or maintain someone elses idea isn't one of them.

For a price I'd be happy to turn up and give you eight hours of hard work per day. I take pride in my work, am passionate about improving my skills and would do my best to translate them into tangible benefits for your organization.

But my motivation for doing so would be mostly based on a financial arrangement, in other words, extrinsic. Does that someone like me shouldn't apply for a job posting like this or am I misunderstanding?

lifeisstillgood|13 years ago

Recently I saw a post that quoted

  Derive your self-worth from the process not the output.
   
The first you control, code quality, integrity, professional communication with team mates etc. The second is not entirely within your control and should not lead to anxiety.

Anyway, I would want to hire someone like that - more intrinsically motivated, than someone who is focused on building Facebook for dogs for an IPO.

I would pay good money, but not expect commitment to the mission, just commitment to intrinsically good code and practises.

That's my take

x1|13 years ago

On a side note, now I understand why HN doesn't allow comments on job postings. This is a tough crowd.

droithomme|13 years ago

It's not a tough crowd at all, the comments are all extremely reasonable and should be insightful to the job lister.

HN really should allow such comments, it would often help companies get feedback about why they are not finding the people they think they need.

MaxGabriel|13 years ago

But the comments have identified possible problems with the posting and have information about the company (complimenting the work experience there and explicitly explaining what technologies they'll use).

anuraj|13 years ago

If I am intrinsically motivated, why would I work for somebody?

wpietri|13 years ago

Because you can get behind what they do.

I like making things for people. At Etsy, for example, I like that the sell side of their audience are independent makers. I could easily imagine doing some user interviews, discovering something in their experience that can be improved, and then going out and making it happen.

Working with others can be preferable to working alone in that it's a lot easier to release something that helps a large audience. Because I'm not an idiot I would insist they pay me fairly, but my primary motivation would still be helping the users.

masterzora|13 years ago

One can be intrinsically motivated and still need a steady income.

jph|13 years ago

Etsy is a terrific company for development, especially for continuous delivery and how to build great systems. Their tech blog is excellent: http://codeascraft.etsy.com/

wissler|13 years ago

Yes, a beautiful job description. However, for me these two statements are inherently contradictory:

"You consider critical thinking to be among your core competencies."

"But technology is a means and not the ends for you, and you don’t flinch at the idea of writing largely PHP for a living."

I interpret this as "think critically, but don't criticize the technology choices we have already made."

Yes, technology is a means, but that does not mean that it's something to just mindlessly accept. This is particularly true in the realm of software where there are so many technological possibilities to choose from.

StavrosK|13 years ago

Well, they've ostensibly put tens of man-years into their architecture. I don't think any amount of critical thinking can change it significantly...