The parties follow what the voters support. If you want unpopular economic policy to have a party we need third parties to be relevant. There’s an economically progressive group in the house but they don’t have much support and in fact some of their members are defecting as they realize the stance isn’t politically relevant.
Reading this with sincerity is near impossible. I sympathize with the people who complain that it takes a disproportionate amount of energy to refute nonsense. This page is full of just-so things we are supposed to take at face value and I can’t take it seriously. It’s written in a tragic comedy sort of way lacking self reflection of the situation.
I’m done pretending to play along with these narratives. This is just another propaganda piece.
Reading this with sincerity is near impossible. I sympathize with the people who complain that it takes a disproportionate amount of energy to refute nonsense. This post is full of just-so things we are supposed to take at face value and I can’t take it seriously. It’s written in a tragic comedy sort of way lacking self reflection of the situation.
I’m done pretending to play along with these narratives. This is just another propaganda post.
Because I get enough end-of-democracy content from just about everywhere else these days and I come here for something different. It's exhausting to have to read titles like this and filter it myself, and "flag" better communicates that I think this is not just something I'm uninterested in but also something I feel violates the guidelines and shouldn't have been posted in the first place.
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.
> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity.
I see no evidence that discussion on this article will evolve to be better than discussion on most political submissions, so I see no reason for it to remain on the front page.
There are quite a few accounts on HN that flag comments and articles that could be considered critical of Trump. They abuse the guidelines like "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle." as a censorship tool.
Ironically, I suspect the biggest threat to democracy would be a staunch refusal to admit that your political opponents are human beings and do, on a fair number of issues, have good points. Democracy is impossible if two groups of people start convincing themselves it is a fight to the death where the fate of the country is actually on the line.
I take heart in the US case that nearly 10 years into the Trump era the Democrats are being beaten back from "Nazi" to "Weird". My hope is that in another 5 years they'll retreat to "well we just don't agree with some of this".
> Democracy is impossible if two groups of people start convincing themselves it is a fight to the death where the fate of the country is actually on the line.
From my perspective, only one group wants to marginalize groups of people and roll back decades of social progress. For the people being unjustly targeted, it is becoming a fight to the death for them if they want to maintain their dignity, autonomy, and quality of life.
Not to mention the whole electing a dictator thing. Kinda weird.
Republicans have been calling their "enemies" communists for years, the actual politicians that the people elected. Democrat politicians don't generally behave like that, but if there ever were a time this would be it.
> Ironically, I suspect the biggest threat to democracy would be a staunch refusal to admit that your political opponents are human beings and do, on a fair number of issues, have good points. Democracy is impossible if two groups of people start convincing themselves it is a fight to the death where the fate of the country is actually on the line.
The Republicans are human being who do, on a fair number of issues, have good points.
The problem is they also literally are saying:
"Christians, get out and vote! Just this time – you won’t have to do it any more!"[1]
"Get out – you gotta get out and vote. In four years, you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good, you’re not gonna have to vote."[1]
And they aren't afraid to put physical violence behind those words. They literally broke into the capital building.
So, the fate of the country is actually on the line.
Meanwhile, you don't seem to take any issue with Republicans saying their opponents are socialists, nazis, and communists, somehow all at once, because we want to do something as benign as provide healthcare for poor people. Is it only okay to say the fate of the country is at stake when Republicans do it?
Unironically, the republicans aren't shy of calling liberal opponents 'nazi' either. Do conservatives have any responsibility to also tone down their rhetoric?
There was a time when the two parties had a very different dynamic and could, at times, work together when a given policy was in line with both. I think this degraded and then the tea-party conservatives broke it for good, opting for a much more confrontational style where democrats ceased being people with a different opinion and started being 'the enemy' with whom no compromise would be entertained. This trend continued, even strengthened into MAGA trumpism. Biden's bipartisan immigration bill for example, which had many components which conservatives wanted, was rejected because Trump thought it would be seen as 'a win' for 'the other side'. I can't think of an example where a bipartisan bill was rejected by the democrats for similar reasoning.
> I take heart in the US case that nearly 10 years into the Trump era the Democrats are being beaten back from "Nazi" to "Weird". My hope is that in another 5 years they'll retreat to "well we just don't agree with some of this".
This seriously minimizes the issue of the dichotomy to the point of bad faith.
From what I've witnessed many people see democrats being "rotten to their core" which makes the discussion not about values or policies, but fundamental stance on how to govern a country. Who cares about good points of democrats if those points are perceived to push a hidden agenda, while whatever you don't agree with is them "pushing agenda in plain view!".
[+] [-] xtiansimon|1 year ago|reply
Content is well organized. High level outline, lists authors who influence their work.
Sidebar for Journalists reveals the community this is written for.
Since it is written in 2022, I wonder if the publisher still believes the work is accurate.
[+] [-] tharmas|1 year ago|reply
Sure theres differences on social policy eg Gender rights, abortion etc.
Both Parties are captured by the Donor class.
[+] [-] HDThoreaun|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] stonethrowaway|1 year ago|reply
I’m done pretending to play along with these narratives. This is just another propaganda piece.
[+] [-] kerkeslager|1 year ago|reply
I’m done pretending to play along with these narratives. This is just another propaganda post.
[+] [-] 201984|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] squigz|1 year ago|reply
Edit: Bit interesting that even this comment is being downvoted, with few replies.
[+] [-] lolinder|1 year ago|reply
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.
> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity.
I see no evidence that discussion on this article will evolve to be better than discussion on most political submissions, so I see no reason for it to remain on the front page.
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] AnimalMuppet|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] ozr|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] candiddevmike|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] roenxi|1 year ago|reply
I take heart in the US case that nearly 10 years into the Trump era the Democrats are being beaten back from "Nazi" to "Weird". My hope is that in another 5 years they'll retreat to "well we just don't agree with some of this".
[+] [-] candiddevmike|1 year ago|reply
From my perspective, only one group wants to marginalize groups of people and roll back decades of social progress. For the people being unjustly targeted, it is becoming a fight to the death for them if they want to maintain their dignity, autonomy, and quality of life.
Not to mention the whole electing a dictator thing. Kinda weird.
[+] [-] lasc4r|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] kerkeslager|1 year ago|reply
The Republicans are human being who do, on a fair number of issues, have good points.
The problem is they also literally are saying:
"Christians, get out and vote! Just this time – you won’t have to do it any more!"[1]
"Get out – you gotta get out and vote. In four years, you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good, you’re not gonna have to vote."[1]
And they aren't afraid to put physical violence behind those words. They literally broke into the capital building.
So, the fate of the country is actually on the line.
Meanwhile, you don't seem to take any issue with Republicans saying their opponents are socialists, nazis, and communists, somehow all at once, because we want to do something as benign as provide healthcare for poor people. Is it only okay to say the fate of the country is at stake when Republicans do it?
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/27/trum...
EDIT: I'd be interested in hearing where downvoters think I'm wrong.
[+] [-] Eddy_Viscosity2|1 year ago|reply
There was a time when the two parties had a very different dynamic and could, at times, work together when a given policy was in line with both. I think this degraded and then the tea-party conservatives broke it for good, opting for a much more confrontational style where democrats ceased being people with a different opinion and started being 'the enemy' with whom no compromise would be entertained. This trend continued, even strengthened into MAGA trumpism. Biden's bipartisan immigration bill for example, which had many components which conservatives wanted, was rejected because Trump thought it would be seen as 'a win' for 'the other side'. I can't think of an example where a bipartisan bill was rejected by the democrats for similar reasoning.
[+] [-] MSFT_Edging|1 year ago|reply
This seriously minimizes the issue of the dichotomy to the point of bad faith.
[+] [-] Yiin|1 year ago|reply
From what I've witnessed many people see democrats being "rotten to their core" which makes the discussion not about values or policies, but fundamental stance on how to govern a country. Who cares about good points of democrats if those points are perceived to push a hidden agenda, while whatever you don't agree with is them "pushing agenda in plain view!".
[+] [-] draw_down|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] polotics|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]