My approach is to have separate “take-off” points near the entrance/exit of each room.
Example: If I’m in my home office and find that some things need to go to the living room and some to the kitchen, I simply queue them to take off instead of taking a trip every time I realize an item needs to go. Then when I take a coffee break, I’ll grab all the items; drop the living-room items off on the way to the kitchen, and drop the kitchen items off when I arrive. I get my coffee; grab anything queued up on the kitchen take-off point that can be dropped off on the way, and drop them off on my way back.
As it works out, everything is almost always where it ought to be; and when it’s not, I know where it will be instead.
The key is that I always check the take-off point every time I leave a room.
This is a good idea, as is the idea in the article. The basic requisite however is a desire to not lose stuff. My wife always loses track of her EarPods. My oldest kid always loses his pocket knife.
I could have 20 holding pens in the house and they'd still lose their stuff, since the idea that you have to exert even a minor amount of effort <now> by putting stuff in its place to save yourself much more searching effort <later>, is either lost on them, or they just greatly value the present over the future.
I do not even get annoyed about it anymore - just like I do not get annoyed that it turns dark at night. My stuff is always in its place, and before we leave the house they will spend 10 minutes finding theirs.
I might just steal this idea from you. Having a partner who ”organize through chaos” (which I maintain is not an actual system) there are constantly treasure troves of knick-knacks everywhere, usually hiding important items. No matter how often I try to organize it’s always messy, I think this might be the answer. Thank you!
I will almost always ignore the box/take-off. I pile stuff up by my office door that needs to go out to the garage. That spot always has tools piled up. A tote probably would help.
Also, there's design trick to make things look better. If you put 3 or 4 things onto a dish or textile or something, they magically convert from clutter to intentional. I don't know if a plastic sterlite works for this though.
I do the same. I use the stairs as take-off points. I regularly go up and down anyway, so I take whatever is on the stairs and put it away, or put it on the next floor stairs if it needs to go to the attic. Now if I could only get my wife to do this too. She will put items on the stairs but always forget to take them up or down and walk right past them :-D
Ha! This is how I manage files between my desktop and home directory’s subfolders. Don’t have time to sort? Drop into the parent directory, and sort it later.
My biggest problem has always been forgetting things when I leave the house. I was _constantly_ leaving for work, only to turn around because my wife called and said "you forgot your badge, you forgot your wallet", etc.
What changed this was a trick I learned from working IT in a large manufacturing company. We got to walk the line and learn from our customers, and one thing they had at critical stations were poka-yoke(0) trays. Think a molded plastic tray filled with exactly all of the things the operator needed to do their assembly, the bolts and nuts and fixtures and what not. So if you were attaching a pulley to a shaft you had a spot that held one pulley, one for a set screw, etc., and the spot was designed for only the right size screw so if it too long or too short you knew you had a problem. On each assembly the operator knew if their tray wasn't full when they started assembling or if it had extra parts in it there was a problem, and when they ended assembly if the tray wasn't empty something wasn't done properly.
One day I had the epiphany that this might just work for me, so I decided to make my own: I bought some craft foam and a plastic tray, and traced/cut spots in the foam for everything I needed for work – my keys, badge, watch, etc. Then every day when I came home my work things went into the poka-yoke, and I forced myself to not leave the entryway until it was completely full ... so no more "oh guess my wallet is in the car", I had to go get it and put it in. Every morning when I was leaving for work I'd empty it. My mornings went from ten+ minutes of me cursing and searching for my keys to... nothing.
In manufacturing this is often referred to as "Kaizen" [1], more specifically as 5S / "Seiton" part. There's even quite a substantial (though not cheap) market for kaizen specific foam inserts / foam sheets. Mainly these are easier to cut and have contrasting color for top and middle layers, showing obviously if a tool is missing from its place. Look up "kaizen foam" if interrested.
Best cleaning / organizational tip I’ve learned : everything out of place goes into a tote. Every day shuttle the tote around the house to deposit the items in their rightful place. This reduces reorganizing to linear time
Ha! Similar idea to mine, but I use an open-wide-shallow basket/bin instead. My saying to my family is, “Everything has a place to go.” The ones that don’t go in their place quickly enough land in the basket/bin.
Now, during the weekend cleanup chores, the items are preferably placed in the right places.
Growing up lacking access to good stationery, I kinda get anxious and panicked and tend to over-buy stationery items for my kids and mine. So, I have a pretty large basket container just for the stationery.
And how do you manage to force yourself to do that last daily part? Most people who struggle with storing stuff in a dedicated storage also struggle with routines.
I've done this. The problem I find is having to fold my clothes and re-orginize every tote 10-15 times a day, as the totes are rotating around the various pettestals.
I'ts definity a case of "house eats you". You know what I mean.
Yeah, but where does the tote live? It’s mobile and might not be where I need it when I need it. Then I go looking for it, and all of a sudden I have two problems and have difficulty getting back to what I was doing in the first place. :-)
It may be linear in the number of items, but not in the number of rightful places (you’d have to sort the items by rightful place first). Deciding on each rightful place also tends to not be constant-time.
I love physical algorithms and data structures in every day life. My little computer science brain is simple but if I can remember small tricks, particularly with the arrangement of everyday things, I find joy somehow. A couple of my favorites are like if I need to remember to do something in the groggy morning, I put either my wallet or keys wrapped around something weird. When I awaken and go to find those items, I am awoken to the specific thing to remember to do or bring. I never forget my wallet (very fortunately for me), so if I find a large paper or pen or something very odd in the fold which would absolutely never belong there under normal circumstances, then it triggers the reminder. It also helps that I usually just forget the memory /trigger/, not the actual memory of what to donor bring. Another simple one is I rotate a couple supplements. How do I recall which to take? I stack them. I always put the one I /should/ take next on top. The way I remember this is I fall back to a base case: say I forget my little trick, well, I tell myself to grab the top one. So either I remember my trick, or I do the simple thing and just grab the top one. Either way I have at least made it through today with the correct one. Then I put it on the bottom and am primed for being forgetful tomorrow. I am still working on arranging shirts in a fifo queue in my closet on the rack. Or more clever, I put it back on the top and treat the rack as sort of a heap data structure, things worn recently are always to the left. If I want to wear it not so much, I put it deeper down the line. Then when searching I always start from the top (left for me) and know I probably wore a lot of these items recently. This also helps because I tend to wear only a fraction of my shirts, usually my favorites. Again, they are towards the left so they are easier to find.
I think I also do most of these. Clothes in FIFO queues, except I have three queues for T-shirts, for best, decent, and doing housework quality. Stick a post-it note on my glasses or shoes to remind me to do something. Or use a weird item to jog my memory if I don't have a post-it to hand. Leave medication out on the bathroom sink if I need to use it the next morning. Leave the bedroom wastepaperbasket on the bed if the bins need to go out later. And the takeoff points someone else suggested - things to go downstairs pile up at the top of the stairs, things to go to he kitchen pile up on the cupboard by the kitchen door, etc.
On clothes, I suggest a FIFO order, then occasionally garbage collect from the out end to identify clothes you haven't worn in a long time and keep skipping over when it's time to dress. Get rid of them or move them into cold storage.
> A couple of my favorites are like if I need to remember to do something in the groggy morning, I put either my wallet or keys wrapped around something weird. When I awaken and go to find those items, I am awoken to the specific thing to remember to do or bring.
Oh man I love this technique. I use it all the time. One morning when I was running late and had to fly out the door or else miss the bus, I threw the toothbrush I just finished using in the middle of the floor in front of the door as I ran through through the room. Got home 10 hours later and "why TF is my toothbrush in the middle of the living room? ... Oh yeah I need to pay the eye doctor bill." Works great, I love it.
I just end up buying enough of the item to be within arms reach of nearly anywhere I'm likely to use it.
I used to never be able to find a screwdriver when I needed it, so now I have seven screwdrivers: three regular ratcheting, three stubby ratcheting, and a ratcheting one that lives in my pocket. I keep a regular ratcheting on my desk, in my living room, and in my bedroom, which are the only places I would realistically ever use these things.
As a result there's really no reason for me to lose it; it's already contained into the area that it already lives.
I do this with a lot of stuff now. Separate chargers for my laptop for my desk and my bed, separate iPhone chargers, and a bunch of other stuff.
I applied this rule to tape measures, because I found I never had one when I needed one, e.g., out in the car. So my new rule became: if you can't easily find a tape measure when you need one, buy another one at your earliest convenience.
Now I have one in my work bag, at least one in the car, one in my main toolbox, a few hiding around other places in the garage, one in the kitchen, probably one upstairs, on in my desk drawer, etc.
From the title I thought, how is holding a pen all day going to stop me from forgetting where I put things down? Lol.
This is at times my personal hell. I'm of the type who uses the "find my phone" feature about ten times a day and needs Tile trackers for my keys - and wallet. If only a tracker existed that was small enough to attach to my two pairs of prescription glasses.
I'll have a think about designated putting things down areas, but I'd likely just forget.
I like the tip from Adam Savage on where to put new things: Quickly think about where you would search first for this item. The first thought that comes to mind is where you store it. Next time you look for the item it is right where you would search first.
I've also really found it helpful to put things in plain sight.
The best example of this is shallow toolchest drawers where you can for example open one and see all your screwdrivers.
The worst is the back of the refrigerator, where things go to turn into science experiments. I can kind of see why those super-expensive 48" wide (but shallow) subzero fridges sell for so much.
I used to lose stuff and I also grew up in a hoarder house.
I ended up having a place for everything as mentioned in the article.
In the last 10 years, I have not actually lost a single thing. I’m actually pretty proud of myself. I also haven’t lost a single sock, which is really where it matters.
(I do match up my socks every time right after I do laundry tho.)
There was one time I couldn’t find a tool and I was afraid I was gonna break my streak… but I did eventually find it.
I like this idea, but I wonder if the people (like me) most likely to benefit from this idea are precisely the people that would turn the holding pen into an undifferentiated trash bin in the same way that any empty surface gets filled over time.
> 2.) instances where we don’t have time to take the item to it’s assigned place (e.g., because it’s in another room).
One of the most important things I took away from the life changing magic of tidying up is that, unless you live in Scrooge mcducks mansion, the chances that you genuinely don’t have enough time to put something back where it belongs are very remote.
* you can put them on their ends and they don't fall over, which is ideal for storage on shelves
* translucent so you can see what's inside
Pull off the shelf, open up, rummage / sort / process (with extra space in the lid if needed) then pour everything back into the main storage from the lid and reshelve.
It's amazing how being able to shelve on their sides (rather than in a stack) changes things.
2. If something is out of place, I put it back to the place;
3. If I cannot put it back at the moment, I put it in my pocket, and goes to 2 after current task is done;
4. If I cannot put it in my pocket, I put it near me in some salient way, and goes to 2 after current task is done;
5. If something is constantly out-of-place, rethink the designated place for that item.
Step 4 is dependent on the fact that the space is well-organized in the first place, such that I could put item in a way that is salient and jarring to future me. If I'm surrounded by a mess, it probably wouldn't work. For example, I often perch something that I have to carry to my room in the middle of the kitchen island while I'm chopping and cooking. It works because the surface is almost always empty. If the kitchen island is already crowded, this wouldn't have worked.
But I think the real secret to how to get the system working, is to do step 2 as much as I could, and avoid step 3 & 4 if at all possible. It's the realization that moving an item to the right place takes less than 20 seconds, only 19 seconds longer than putting it in my pocket. (This of course predicated on the fact that I live in a small apartment rather than a big house.)
I've had trouble getting this to work but I do have one addition that might help people who can make this work or partially work.
I have a closet full of clear plastic shoe boxes with labels on them. Labels like First Aid, Remotes, Ribbons, Pens/Pencils, etc.
When you need to put something away, put it in the shoe box.
Often, someone will say, "Where's the lighter?" and I'll respond, "in the closet". Happens nearly daily now.
The problem I have is that sometimes I'm too tired to put my thing in the holding pen. For keys, we have a key holder. But sometimes I don't realize I have keys in my pocket until bed time and I just empty them onto my night stand. Even walking across the room feels like too much. "I'll put them away tomorrow", I think to myself.
In any case, it's a helpful set of routines, I just find I don't ALWAYS stick to it.
1) Items which are too transient/unimportant to have memorable assigned place.
A single spot seems easily preferable to half-a-dozen 'holding pens' spread throughout the house. Have a junk drawer for long-term miscellaneous storage, an inbox for action items (mail to read, that broken toy you need to fix, etc).
2) Instances where we don’t have time to take the item to it’s assigned place
It takes, what, 20 seconds to walk into another room and back? How often is this truly a matter of "can't" as opposed to "don't want to"? Note that you're not actually saving the 20 seconds, because you're going to have to walk all over your house later, cleaning out your storage pens and returning them all over the house.
IMO, having a place for everything and ensuring that everything is where it belongs (mise en place) is the ultimate efficiency boost. If you still struggle with this, the ideal solution (beyond "just put it back when you're done, bro") is Ben Franklin's method, which was assigning 5-10 minutes at the end of each day, just before bed, to "putting things in their places". Visiting your work space, your bathroom, your car, etc, returning things to their rightful places, and generally putting things in order in preparation for the next day. Nothing will make future-you love current-you more!
This doesn't help people who have a "one item stack", which occasionally describes me. If I'm holding something, and I find something else I need, I'll just put the one thing down to pick the other thing up. If I'm interrupted, there's a chance that I'll leave the original article right wherever this happened.
This is how the TV remote control ends up in the freezer, for example.
Funny, when I read the title I thought it was some mental trick that involved holding a pen.
The actual idea of 'holding pens' is a good one. However, only if the contents get sorted, otherwise they will just fill up with clutter. I know people for whom this idea would lead to excuse to not put things away, they'd just put them in the holding pen and do it later. Later never comes.
[+] [-] treetalker|1 year ago|reply
Example: If I’m in my home office and find that some things need to go to the living room and some to the kitchen, I simply queue them to take off instead of taking a trip every time I realize an item needs to go. Then when I take a coffee break, I’ll grab all the items; drop the living-room items off on the way to the kitchen, and drop the kitchen items off when I arrive. I get my coffee; grab anything queued up on the kitchen take-off point that can be dropped off on the way, and drop them off on my way back.
As it works out, everything is almost always where it ought to be; and when it’s not, I know where it will be instead.
The key is that I always check the take-off point every time I leave a room.
[+] [-] leokennis|1 year ago|reply
I could have 20 holding pens in the house and they'd still lose their stuff, since the idea that you have to exert even a minor amount of effort <now> by putting stuff in its place to save yourself much more searching effort <later>, is either lost on them, or they just greatly value the present over the future.
I do not even get annoyed about it anymore - just like I do not get annoyed that it turns dark at night. My stuff is always in its place, and before we leave the house they will spend 10 minutes finding theirs.
[+] [-] bubblebeard|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] pards|1 year ago|reply
Whoa, it's halfway there
Whoa,leave it on the stairs!
https://youtu.be/ZKW-USW5uTo
[+] [-] BurningFrog|1 year ago|reply
That way I can't leave the house without dealing with them
[+] [-] lacrosse_tannin|1 year ago|reply
Also, there's design trick to make things look better. If you put 3 or 4 things onto a dish or textile or something, they magically convert from clutter to intentional. I don't know if a plastic sterlite works for this though.
[+] [-] Sander_Marechal|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] m463|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] pacifika|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] xtiansimon|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] rigrassm|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] normie3000|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] consf|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] thrwaway1985882|1 year ago|reply
What changed this was a trick I learned from working IT in a large manufacturing company. We got to walk the line and learn from our customers, and one thing they had at critical stations were poka-yoke(0) trays. Think a molded plastic tray filled with exactly all of the things the operator needed to do their assembly, the bolts and nuts and fixtures and what not. So if you were attaching a pulley to a shaft you had a spot that held one pulley, one for a set screw, etc., and the spot was designed for only the right size screw so if it too long or too short you knew you had a problem. On each assembly the operator knew if their tray wasn't full when they started assembling or if it had extra parts in it there was a problem, and when they ended assembly if the tray wasn't empty something wasn't done properly.
One day I had the epiphany that this might just work for me, so I decided to make my own: I bought some craft foam and a plastic tray, and traced/cut spots in the foam for everything I needed for work – my keys, badge, watch, etc. Then every day when I came home my work things went into the poka-yoke, and I forced myself to not leave the entryway until it was completely full ... so no more "oh guess my wallet is in the car", I had to go get it and put it in. Every morning when I was leaving for work I'd empty it. My mornings went from ten+ minutes of me cursing and searching for my keys to... nothing.
(0): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke
[+] [-] MezzoDelCammin|1 year ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen
[+] [-] tonymet|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] jen729w|1 year ago|reply
If I saw his junk lying around, it went in his drawer. Far more often if he saw my junk lying around, it went in my drawer.
‘Where’s thing?’ Probably in my drawer.
[+] [-] TeMPOraL|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] Brajeshwar|1 year ago|reply
Now, during the weekend cleanup chores, the items are preferably placed in the right places.
Growing up lacking access to good stationery, I kinda get anxious and panicked and tend to over-buy stationery items for my kids and mine. So, I have a pretty large basket container just for the stationery.
[+] [-] prmoustache|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] P_I_Staker|1 year ago|reply
I'ts definity a case of "house eats you". You know what I mean.
[+] [-] treetalker|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] hn_user82179|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] fmbb|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] layer8|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] m463|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] gleenn|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] fire_lake|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] twic|1 year ago|reply
On clothes, I suggest a FIFO order, then occasionally garbage collect from the out end to identify clothes you haven't worn in a long time and keep skipping over when it's time to dress. Get rid of them or move them into cold storage.
[+] [-] coldpie|1 year ago|reply
Oh man I love this technique. I use it all the time. One morning when I was running late and had to fly out the door or else miss the bus, I threw the toothbrush I just finished using in the middle of the floor in front of the door as I ran through through the room. Got home 10 hours later and "why TF is my toothbrush in the middle of the living room? ... Oh yeah I need to pay the eye doctor bill." Works great, I love it.
[+] [-] tombert|1 year ago|reply
I used to never be able to find a screwdriver when I needed it, so now I have seven screwdrivers: three regular ratcheting, three stubby ratcheting, and a ratcheting one that lives in my pocket. I keep a regular ratcheting on my desk, in my living room, and in my bedroom, which are the only places I would realistically ever use these things.
As a result there's really no reason for me to lose it; it's already contained into the area that it already lives.
I do this with a lot of stuff now. Separate chargers for my laptop for my desk and my bed, separate iPhone chargers, and a bunch of other stuff.
[+] [-] jeffparsons|1 year ago|reply
Now I have one in my work bag, at least one in the car, one in my main toolbox, a few hiding around other places in the garage, one in the kitchen, probably one upstairs, on in my desk drawer, etc.
No regrets. Life is better now.
[+] [-] sundvor|1 year ago|reply
This is at times my personal hell. I'm of the type who uses the "find my phone" feature about ten times a day and needs Tile trackers for my keys - and wallet. If only a tracker existed that was small enough to attach to my two pairs of prescription glasses.
I'll have a think about designated putting things down areas, but I'd likely just forget.
(I see that https://findorbit.com/products/orbit-glasses-x exists but that's for Apples only).
[+] [-] wodie|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] m463|1 year ago|reply
I've also really found it helpful to put things in plain sight.
The best example of this is shallow toolchest drawers where you can for example open one and see all your screwdrivers.
The worst is the back of the refrigerator, where things go to turn into science experiments. I can kind of see why those super-expensive 48" wide (but shallow) subzero fridges sell for so much.
[+] [-] doubled112|1 year ago|reply
I still don’t think my wife understands the struggle that the top shelf is completely invisible when I open the fridge door unless I get way down.
[+] [-] vundercind|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] treflop|1 year ago|reply
I ended up having a place for everything as mentioned in the article.
In the last 10 years, I have not actually lost a single thing. I’m actually pretty proud of myself. I also haven’t lost a single sock, which is really where it matters.
(I do match up my socks every time right after I do laundry tho.)
There was one time I couldn’t find a tool and I was afraid I was gonna break my streak… but I did eventually find it.
[+] [-] chrisbrandow|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] dools|1 year ago|reply
One of the most important things I took away from the life changing magic of tidying up is that, unless you live in Scrooge mcducks mansion, the chances that you genuinely don’t have enough time to put something back where it belongs are very remote.
EDIT: I actually wrote down my thoughts about this https://www.benkophone.com/2018/12/20/theres-nothing-magical...
[+] [-] leashless|1 year ago|reply
* you can put them on their ends and they don't fall over, which is ideal for storage on shelves
* translucent so you can see what's inside
Pull off the shelf, open up, rummage / sort / process (with extra space in the lid if needed) then pour everything back into the main storage from the lid and reshelve.
It's amazing how being able to shelve on their sides (rather than in a stack) changes things.
[+] [-] powersnail|1 year ago|reply
1. Everything has a place;
2. If something is out of place, I put it back to the place;
3. If I cannot put it back at the moment, I put it in my pocket, and goes to 2 after current task is done;
4. If I cannot put it in my pocket, I put it near me in some salient way, and goes to 2 after current task is done;
5. If something is constantly out-of-place, rethink the designated place for that item.
Step 4 is dependent on the fact that the space is well-organized in the first place, such that I could put item in a way that is salient and jarring to future me. If I'm surrounded by a mess, it probably wouldn't work. For example, I often perch something that I have to carry to my room in the middle of the kitchen island while I'm chopping and cooking. It works because the surface is almost always empty. If the kitchen island is already crowded, this wouldn't have worked.
But I think the real secret to how to get the system working, is to do step 2 as much as I could, and avoid step 3 & 4 if at all possible. It's the realization that moving an item to the right place takes less than 20 seconds, only 19 seconds longer than putting it in my pocket. (This of course predicated on the fact that I live in a small apartment rather than a big house.)
[+] [-] codazoda|1 year ago|reply
I have a closet full of clear plastic shoe boxes with labels on them. Labels like First Aid, Remotes, Ribbons, Pens/Pencils, etc.
When you need to put something away, put it in the shoe box.
Often, someone will say, "Where's the lighter?" and I'll respond, "in the closet". Happens nearly daily now.
The problem I have is that sometimes I'm too tired to put my thing in the holding pen. For keys, we have a key holder. But sometimes I don't realize I have keys in my pocket until bed time and I just empty them onto my night stand. Even walking across the room feels like too much. "I'll put them away tomorrow", I think to myself.
In any case, it's a helpful set of routines, I just find I don't ALWAYS stick to it.
[+] [-] marcusverus|1 year ago|reply
A single spot seems easily preferable to half-a-dozen 'holding pens' spread throughout the house. Have a junk drawer for long-term miscellaneous storage, an inbox for action items (mail to read, that broken toy you need to fix, etc).
2) Instances where we don’t have time to take the item to it’s assigned place
It takes, what, 20 seconds to walk into another room and back? How often is this truly a matter of "can't" as opposed to "don't want to"? Note that you're not actually saving the 20 seconds, because you're going to have to walk all over your house later, cleaning out your storage pens and returning them all over the house.
IMO, having a place for everything and ensuring that everything is where it belongs (mise en place) is the ultimate efficiency boost. If you still struggle with this, the ideal solution (beyond "just put it back when you're done, bro") is Ben Franklin's method, which was assigning 5-10 minutes at the end of each day, just before bed, to "putting things in their places". Visiting your work space, your bathroom, your car, etc, returning things to their rightful places, and generally putting things in order in preparation for the next day. Nothing will make future-you love current-you more!
[+] [-] foobarian|1 year ago|reply
I will add that not having something in the first place is another excellent efficiency boost.
[+] [-] NovemberWhiskey|1 year ago|reply
This is how the TV remote control ends up in the freezer, for example.
[+] [-] Eddy_Viscosity2|1 year ago|reply
The actual idea of 'holding pens' is a good one. However, only if the contents get sorted, otherwise they will just fill up with clutter. I know people for whom this idea would lead to excuse to not put things away, they'd just put them in the holding pen and do it later. Later never comes.
[+] [-] Modified3019|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] ggm|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] sublinear|1 year ago|reply