The hypocrisy is that if safety was the overall concern, then motorcycles would have been banned a long time ago (and I say this as someone who enjoys riding my motorcycle).
I think the actual problem is that when compared to other cars in their category these kei trucks do have abysmal safety standards such as no airbags or crumple zones. Which is because there isn’t a mini truck category in the US. Basically all pick up trucks are the same category.
The point about older cars still on the road is a valid point though, cars made before 1998 didn’t require airbags so if they can still be registered then the kei trucks should too.
I assume governance is the art of the possible, and banning motorbikes is impossible for political reasons, where banning hobby vehicles looks pretty straight-forward.
> if safety was the overall concern, then motorcycles would have been banned a long time ago
And horse riding on the road - it’s still legal. I believe you can even ride cows in most countries
Safety of the driver, mind you, should be lower priority than safety of others, I.e. pedestrians.
Driver chose to drive whatever that is, but pedestrians didn’t. From that perspective motorcycles are great, they are least likely vehicle to main a pedestrian or child.
But those Japanese vehicle owners are unknowingly risking their safety by driving them. The government is actually doing them a favor by banning them. /s
I really don't get the NA car market. There is a demand for small kei car/trucks as is natural with cities growing and parking dwindling.
Yet even compacts are disappearing. My kingdom for an EV compact that is compact. Even the Fiat 500s and Mini Coops feel like they get bigger each year.
Because of a quirk of emissions controls in the US. Longer wheelbases and heavier vehicles can get by with poorer emissions. It was done, at the time, to help semi trailers and other huge trucks meet less restrictive requirements without specifically calling them out but now has led to each manufacturer making vehicles as large as possible so meeting emissions restrictions is more economical.
Would love to see data otherwise but I don't believe this is the case. I hear this argument a lot for kei vehicles but its still a niche compared to the broader truck market. 2023 units sold, ford ranger 40k, f-series 760k. The kei market is vastly smaller than the ranger market.
I am sure that profit margin/advertising plays a mix into the decisions but I also think the consumer largely does not want small cars.
Edit: And for small work trucks, most of that market seems to be eaten up by the smaller commercial van vehicles at this point.
That's because of the fixed cost of making another model of a car. Look at what happened to Stellantis trying to bring Fiat 500: after three years of great sales it started to drop pretty quickly to the point where they sold only 16 in the 2023 [1]. Do they make enough profit from selling 16 (or even 1600) cheap cars to afford compliance with the US regulations (they need to crash several cars to get the NHTSA "stars", that's quite a cost even before the cost of the testing itself), stocking spare parts, training mechanics etc? And this is assuming they can sell just the euro model without any retooling, if they need to make a different model for the US market they also need to keep factories tooled for that, keep ordering parts etc.
I think it's because they are still a relatively niche pick. Ultimately creating a car is very hard (I assume), so they all tend to converge their efforts on the 95%.
And the 95% want an SUV or a Sedan. The 5% in dense cities, even if you successfully target and sell to 100% of them, isn't much revenue. Whereas if you make a crappy sedan and only 10% of the 95% consider it, that's STILL more sales.
So it might make more sense to simply give up those markets, take that money and dump it into the big sellers. Your Accords and F-150s of the world. To further capture more of the biggest market. So that's my guess.
That's how capitalism works for vehicles. The same model name continues to grow and increase spending for people looking to buy them when they do. Eventually a new lower model may be inserted below for new buyers, or sometimes the grown model may be reset to a smaller or different form. It's similar to bundling/unbundling cycles which increase expenditure as you try to keep what you want.
Many Japanese vehicles are banned, especially light trucks, because they are too competitive. They are often banned for trumped up reasons, mostly to protect local competition.
While true, at issue in TFA is importing older vehicles. A motor vehicle that is at least 25 years old can be lawfully imported into the U.S. without regard to whether it complies with all applicable [Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS)]. [0]
As noted in TheDrive.com [1] a few weeks ago, the lobby/professional group for various state DMVs, American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators, has decided for some reason to promote DMVs outlawing by regulation small vehicles. The kei car enthusiast community is directly threatened by this and the Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) enthusiast community sees this effort as a shot across the bow. Thus they are working the PR channels to get legislative help in rolling back the regulatory rulemaking.
Yeah, what’s wrong with that? The problem is that US regulations reinforce the creation of unnecessarily large vehicles, largely as the only local option. We have no need for international cars, and inherently transporting them is bad for the environment. It makes far more sense to broaden emission standards across the board to ALL vehicles so that smaller vehicles have a larger market presence and then if international brands want access to the US market they can create US jobs by opening factories.
This sounds like a massive conspiracy if I have ever heard one. Evidence would be helpful.
Foreign markets are often very different and those vehicles don't pass safety in the US. My favorite was the death traps that Toyota Mexico made up until a couple years ago. Brand new vehicle but absolute death trap.
Given the reasoning for refusal is that the vehicles don't meet safety standards, I wonder if they will stop registering older American vehicles as well for lack of safety standards but also for emissions?
It makes sense to regulate what can be sold new, while grandfathering in what was sold legally in the past. People won’t stand for the government jerking people around and saying “this vehicle you purchased legally is now illegal and can’t be driven or sold, and you need to buy another with your own money… but no guarantees we won’t immediately ban the new one also.” Cars have a finite life span unless restored at great expense, so the problem takes care of itself without overbearing laws that would be seen as the government stealing peoples personal property. Appreciating classic cars is also a mainstay of American culture- with most towns having classic car shows, and things like discounted registration and insurance for antique cars.
Yes, that is the objective of the parties involved. From a manufacturer's standpoint, the worse thing that ever happened was the secondary market for vehicles.
Japan has different standards and driving environment around kei cars (I'm going to use K-car going forward).
- Their top speed limit even on highways is 100kmh / 60mph
- K-cars have yellow license plates and yellow license plates are not allowed on highways
I have a memory of seeing one of the infamous white K-trucks on an interstate in Nashville and was gobsmacked. These cars are not rated for highway / interstates in Japan, let alone the U.S.
I'm not sure if the U.S. has a similar visible markings for farm vehicles to allow K-cars city road travel and deny interstate travel. If not, I agree they should be banned until some sort of classification is made and driver culture / knowledge is propagated.
EligibleDecoy|1 year ago
I think the actual problem is that when compared to other cars in their category these kei trucks do have abysmal safety standards such as no airbags or crumple zones. Which is because there isn’t a mini truck category in the US. Basically all pick up trucks are the same category.
The point about older cars still on the road is a valid point though, cars made before 1998 didn’t require airbags so if they can still be registered then the kei trucks should too.
petesergeant|1 year ago
ClumsyPilot|1 year ago
And horse riding on the road - it’s still legal. I believe you can even ride cows in most countries
Safety of the driver, mind you, should be lower priority than safety of others, I.e. pedestrians.
Driver chose to drive whatever that is, but pedestrians didn’t. From that perspective motorcycles are great, they are least likely vehicle to main a pedestrian or child.
olalonde|1 year ago
jszymborski|1 year ago
Yet even compacts are disappearing. My kingdom for an EV compact that is compact. Even the Fiat 500s and Mini Coops feel like they get bigger each year.
EligibleDecoy|1 year ago
infecto|1 year ago
I am sure that profit margin/advertising plays a mix into the decisions but I also think the consumer largely does not want small cars.
Edit: And for small work trucks, most of that market seems to be eaten up by the smaller commercial van vehicles at this point.
pandaman|1 year ago
1. https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/fiat-500-sales-figures/
consteval|1 year ago
And the 95% want an SUV or a Sedan. The 5% in dense cities, even if you successfully target and sell to 100% of them, isn't much revenue. Whereas if you make a crappy sedan and only 10% of the 95% consider it, that's STILL more sales.
So it might make more sense to simply give up those markets, take that money and dump it into the big sellers. Your Accords and F-150s of the world. To further capture more of the biggest market. So that's my guess.
karmakaze|1 year ago
sidewndr46|1 year ago
If you want to sell cars and make money, compacts are not where it is at.
reedf1|1 year ago
adolph|1 year ago
As noted in TheDrive.com [1] a few weeks ago, the lobby/professional group for various state DMVs, American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators, has decided for some reason to promote DMVs outlawing by regulation small vehicles. The kei car enthusiast community is directly threatened by this and the Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) enthusiast community sees this effort as a shot across the bow. Thus they are working the PR channels to get legislative help in rolling back the regulatory rulemaking.
0. https://www.nhtsa.gov/importing-vehicle/importation-and-cert...
1. https://www.thedrive.com/news/massachusetts-reviewing-kei-ca...
tourmalinetaco|1 year ago
infecto|1 year ago
Foreign markets are often very different and those vehicles don't pass safety in the US. My favorite was the death traps that Toyota Mexico made up until a couple years ago. Brand new vehicle but absolute death trap.
themaninthedark|1 year ago
spdgg|1 year ago
Small trucks = not safe
Massive modern trucks killing cyclists and pedestrians = very safe! (For the driver)
UniverseHacker|1 year ago
sidewndr46|1 year ago
tsuru|1 year ago
- Their top speed limit even on highways is 100kmh / 60mph
- K-cars have yellow license plates and yellow license plates are not allowed on highways
I have a memory of seeing one of the infamous white K-trucks on an interstate in Nashville and was gobsmacked. These cars are not rated for highway / interstates in Japan, let alone the U.S.
I'm not sure if the U.S. has a similar visible markings for farm vehicles to allow K-cars city road travel and deny interstate travel. If not, I agree they should be banned until some sort of classification is made and driver culture / knowledge is propagated.
filmor|1 year ago
gnabgib|1 year ago
unknown|1 year ago
[deleted]
andrewgilmartin|1 year ago
Low-speed vehicles are coming to Rhode Island streets https://turnto10.com/news/local/low-speed-vehicles-are-comin...