[Djdjur7373bb]

Does it actually make economic sense to run a cable large enough for that kind of power from Australia to Singapore?

I would have guessed there must be enough domestic customers or in Indonesia that would make more sense.

[londons_explore]

Power cables are getting cheaper and cheaper. The expensive part used to be the voltage conversion stations at the ends, but with mass production of MOSFETs for EV's these have now become far cheaper than the JFET's and other exotic silicon that used to be used.

In turn, that means voltages can be higher, letting one use more of the cheaper PVC or XLPE insulating material and less expensive aluminium for the same amount of energy delivered a large number of kilometers.

To be honest, I don't think we're many decades away from the cable+conversion stations themselves cost being irrelevant, and the administration costs, land purchase costs, etc dominating.

[coryrc]

> The expensive part used to be the voltage conversion stations at the ends, but with mass production of MOSFETs for EV's these have now become far cheaper than the JFET's and other exotic silicon that used to be used.

Why do you believe these things are related?

HVDC lines operate in the hundreds-of-kilovolts range. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basslink operates at 400kV. There are no MOSFETs or JFETs directly involved in stepping down that power.

[bhy]

Why higher voltages can result in cheaper insulation materials? Wouldn’t it be the opposite?

[ikekkdcjkfke]

Would they be using AC or DC? I heard that very long cables using AC can be more lossy

[Kuinox]

What material is made the power cable ? I thought copper was getting more and more expensive ?

[eru]

> I would have guessed there must be enough domestic customers or in Indonesia that would make more sense.

Australia is a big place. The northern tip of Australia, where this project is based, isn't really that much further from Singapore than from the Australian population centres in the South East of the continent.

Indonesia is much poorer than Singapore, and has awfully inefficient bureaucracy and regulatory environment.

[snoxy]

Aussie politicians are too busy propping up coal and proposing unrealistic nuclear solutions to seriously focus on renewables.

[chii]

> proposing unrealistic nuclear solutions to seriously focus on renewables.

they're doing unrealistic nuclear proposals, because they know it takes a long time to ramp up, and in the mean time, their buddies' investments in the coal industry gets time to exit and profit properly. It's designed to prevent losses in fossil fuel investments.

Not to mention that australian nuclear cannot be profitable imho - not when solar is so cheap. Their current proposals for nuclear basically requires taxpayer subsidies.

[preisschild]

Nuclear power plants, which have been successfully used for decades, are “unrealistic” now?

[jbsimpson]

If we had the renewables to replace the coal politicians would love it to retire in a heartbeat. The reason it’s sticking it around longer is because politicians fear the backlash from blackouts and high prices more than the backlash from the bad PR of delaying closures of coal.

[rv3392]

I'm unsure about Indonesia, but domestic customers in that region would be pretty limited. The closest major power users would be in Queensland (>1000km) away.

[gonzo41]

Data Centers, Green Steel production. Power == Opportunities. This is such a massive win for the environment.

[christophilus]

My very first thought was: that cable gets snipped in wartime.

Not a big deal, if your grid can handle the loss, but this certainly can’t be the gameplan for the bulk of your power.

[maxglute]

Singapore has no strategic depth anyway, becoming dependent on importing power isn't some extra vunerable vector vs building domestic generation that likely can't be protected long term. Current is Singapore military vs region is like PRC:TW in the 90s... back then TW with US equipment was one of the more potent forces in the region and could stomp far larger/poorer countries with inferior hardware. But advanced equipment can only scale so far vs quantity, and as rest of ASEAN gets wealthier they're going to build out more modern capabilties, at scales that rich but small Singapore won't have the resources to defend against. If anything integration with AU, with military infra (and future US B21s) is probably more secure / geopolitical hedge against other's meddling.

[roenxi]

While Singapore is a surprisingly martial country, if they get into a war with anyone in SEA they're running a very real risk of being destroyed. Indonesia alone has 5x their GDP and 20x their population. There isn't much difficulty choosing which city to target first when going up against Singapore either.

In Singapore's situation, they can probably invest assuming that they are not in a military conflict with anyone. If they get into a war with anyone who can cut that cable they will be returning to the stone age anyway. If Indonesia objects to them they will go, if someone with the power to coerce Indonesia objects to them they're in deep trouble.

[bigiain]

I recall reading Singapores energy rules say this cable can't supply more then 15% of Singapore's requirements, presumably to protect against that.

[leoedin]

Yeah - from a purely technical point of view it seems strange that you'd run a power cable 2000 miles to Singapore to service 4 million people, running alongside the coast of Bali, Java and Sumatra - population 210 million.

Presumably those in Singapore have a lot more buying power though. And the politics are more favourable for big capital investment projects.

[gizajob]

Yeah, they also have zero room left so I guess the option was between more dirty power stations in Malaysia or this. Seems like a wise, forward-looking initiative.

[richrichie]

Singapore with a native population of about 4 million has reserves of about $1 trillion. They can afford to splurge to claim green/net-zero status.

Shopping calculations for them need not be about economic cost benefit analysis.

[eru]

> Shopping calculations for them need not be about economic cost benefit analysis.

But there's also no good reason not to apply cost/benefit analysis.

> Singapore with a native population of about 4 million has reserves of about $1 trillion. They can afford to splurge to claim green/net-zero status.

Of all numbers to bring up here, why did you pick foreign exchange reserves? GDP or wealth might be more relevant?

[dyauspitr]

Indonesia probably has enough land for its own panels.

[defrost]

Indonesia is ~ 17 thousand islands, many steep equatorial jungled volcanic slopes and at 275.5 million is the fourth highest population for a country globally.

Land is in tight demand with food a priority over panels and issues that may not be apparent (clear slopes leads to instability, and keeping them clear is a Sisyphean task, etc).

[angled]

Not really? The company behind this, SunCable, has some history:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/billionaire-cannon-b...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-11/sun-cable-enters-admi...

I guess MCB found a way to make it work pending future investment that may not occur until 2027: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-21/suncable-receives-env...

> The approval paves the way for the next phase of development to deliver industrial-scale electricity to customers. But it still has some way to go, with a final investment decision not expected until 2027.

and

> However, SunCable still needs to negotiate Indigenous land use agreements with a number of different traditional owner groups along the transmission line route to Darwin.