Boeing is made up of a lot of people, some who have done their absolute best. They don't deserve the failure that their leadership caused. I feel bad for Boeing employees, but I don't feel bad for their management.
Most of the time, workers and managers are smart, well-meaning, and hard-working. Even executives (though as you get higher and higher up, you see more and more people whose qualification is political skills and not expertise).
The issue with Boeing is less any individual and more institutional decay. Over time, a spigot of effectively unconditional cash corrupts an organization, especially once anyone with enough internal weight to fight against it is no longer involved in the day-to-day. Give it 20 years, and SpaceX will be the same way.
Manager's entire job is to provide the organizational support and navigate the organizational challenges to allow the non-manager employees the space to do their job. When we talk about systemic organizational failures, managers are the ones that own that problem and are accountable for the failures.
Sure, on an individual basis, you have pockets of amazing managers that can't overcome organizational inertia. I feel for them as well, but when organizational failures come into play, I'm certainly taking more pity on the employees then the managers.
The problem is management sets the core rules and incentives. And no matter how competent and motivated you are, at some point you either move along or stop caring.
There are bad employees but they have less influence over the company overall.
"Management" is short hand for the Jack Welch wannabe MBA try hards. Not middle management.
From my limited experience with megacorps, and lots of reading, persons Director level and up are bat guano insane. Execs live in their own separate Machiavellian fantasy world bubble. Any nod to reality (eg rocket go boom) is a selfown for corporate ladder climbers.
Any productive work at an org like Boeing, post infection by MD's leeches, is in despite of "managagement"'s best efforts.
I don't think the comment you replied to implies such a black and white distinction. Is it so absurd to suggest that some of the people working on Starliner actually cared, and did the best work they could?
Managers too, though ultimately this failure must come down to management at some (presumably high) level.
Except that's capitalism for you. The profit motive means only those willing to put profit (and often very short term profit) ahead of everything else means that only unempathetic assholes (and often psychopaths) end up as leaders of these organisations.
So not everyone who is not a manager is good, but almost all top-level managers are bad. They need to be in order to make the decisions needed to advance short term profit before all else.
This isn’t any better. Are you an IC? All you’re probably saying is, “the people that I work with more directly, that share the same organisational context as me, that I personally can relate to, etc are good, and the other ones aren’t”.
lysace|1 year ago
The reality is often a lot more complex and nuanced.
scarmig|1 year ago
The issue with Boeing is less any individual and more institutional decay. Over time, a spigot of effectively unconditional cash corrupts an organization, especially once anyone with enough internal weight to fight against it is no longer involved in the day-to-day. Give it 20 years, and SpaceX will be the same way.
upon_drumhead|1 year ago
Sure, on an individual basis, you have pockets of amazing managers that can't overcome organizational inertia. I feel for them as well, but when organizational failures come into play, I'm certainly taking more pity on the employees then the managers.
nottorp|1 year ago
There are bad employees but they have less influence over the company overall.
specialist|1 year ago
From my limited experience with megacorps, and lots of reading, persons Director level and up are bat guano insane. Execs live in their own separate Machiavellian fantasy world bubble. Any nod to reality (eg rocket go boom) is a selfown for corporate ladder climbers.
Any productive work at an org like Boeing, post infection by MD's leeches, is in despite of "managagement"'s best efforts.
jjk166|1 year ago
It's possible for the underlings to be good despite bad management, but if the underlings are bad that is again a consequence of poor management.
The only exception would be deliberate sabotage, which is not unknown but incredibly rare.
caconym_|1 year ago
Managers too, though ultimately this failure must come down to management at some (presumably high) level.
Jtsummers|1 year ago
It should rub you the wrong way. It denies both the agency and the moral obligation of the professionals working under the managers.
markdown|1 year ago
So not everyone who is not a manager is good, but almost all top-level managers are bad. They need to be in order to make the decisions needed to advance short term profit before all else.
9659|1 year ago
engineers on the bottom don't care about the politics. they design and implement the best they can.
cqqxo4zV46cp|1 year ago