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Home Assistant Presence Simulation

144 points| edward | 1 year ago |github.com | reply

100 comments

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[+] joshstrange|1 year ago|reply
Just a note to anyone interested in trying out Home Assistant:

It's amazing _but_ do NOT use a raspberry pi to run it. Save yourself a ton of headaches and buy a mini pc (there was a list of used mini pcs posted here yesterday from ebay). Also I recommend using HAOS (or whatever the "we install and run the whole OS" option is called) so that you can use things like plugins without messing around with docker. I love docker but trust me, life is easier on HAOS.

I liked HA but felt like it wasn't really "stable". I used a Pi 3 for a while, then a Pi 4 decked out (highest ram, NVME storage, super nice case, etc) and still felt like it was unstable. I chalked this up to HA but then rolled the dice on a Beelink mini pc and it has been rock solid ever since. Also don't be misled by the lower price of the Pi, I paid more for my Pi 4 setup than the Beelink (or about the same).

I blamed everything from the Zigbee/Z-wave dongles, to HAOS, to HA itself, etc but in the end it was RPi. The 4 was the last Pi I'll ever buy.

EDIT: I was in a hurry and didn't add my normal disclaimer when I talk about the RPi's:

Yes I know some of you have a Pi 1 that been running you entire life since it first came out and you think I'm full of crap. I've owned every Pi 1-4 and never been truly happy with them. I bought them "raw" and sourced all the parts myself, I bought high-end (at least in price) kits with everything included, I bought all official accessories (like power), they always were just that little bit unstable.

It would work great for days/weeks then randomly not be reachable (wired or wireless). I spent just shy of $200 for my last "builds" which included a NVME drive (240G, lest you think this is where the cost was), RPi case, RPi NVME hat, RPi 4 8gb model, SD card, power, etc and the result was still instability. I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I'm a moron but my experience with them has not been great. That said I want to love them and I loved my RPi 1B even with all it's warts, a $35 "credit card sized" computer was awesome. Maybe I just don't want to tinker as much anymore and value stability.

[+] rockbruno|1 year ago|reply
I've been running it for a year on a RPi 2, via WiFi, from a SD card *and* a Zigbee dongle, which is basically what everyone seems to say you should not do, and never had a single issue with it. I don't think these issues have anything to do with HA itself but rather the extensions people install on it.
[+] Fabricio20|1 year ago|reply
I want to go the other way and say DO NOT use HAOS if you know anything about docker. If you have ANY experience working under linux/docker just don't bother with HAOS and save yourself the headache. You will have an incredibly better experience just running your HASS docker container by yourself.

HAOS caused so many issues for me while it tried to set up the other containers (such as Node Red), specially during home assistant updates, and it also made the whole UI extremely confusing because it would "redirect" some things to HAOS while others would be done inside HASS itself. With it auto trying to manage the containers it was also never clear when things were still booting/loading or crash looping and when you had issues the extremely limited access HAOS gives you was painful to deal with.

As with other personal anecdotes in this thread, it may not be relevant to you, but I'd share my own experience as well, as someone that has had HASS running for 6+ years now.

[+] vaindil|1 year ago|reply
Counterpoint: I've been running HAOS on an RPi 2 and 3 for several years without a single issue, and I do use a z-wave dongle but no Zigbee. I only do basic stuff with it (a few automations for my z-wave thermostat and switches, AdGuard Home), but it's been rock solid for me.

I only had issues once, when I tried to run the Unifi Network Application addon. A RPi is not strong enough for that, but I just uninstalled it and moved on.

[+] scubbo|1 year ago|reply
Another "Been using RPi 4 for HAOS solidly for multiple years" anecdote chiming in here. Typically the SD cards are the unreliable bit, not the Pi itself.
[+] stavros|1 year ago|reply
I've been using a Pi 3 for years and years, it's always been rock solid. The only problem was in the beginning, when I didn't use the official power supply, I'd get frequent brownouts, even with good bench power supplies. Apparently the Pi (especially older ones, not sure if they've fixed it now) had too much of a voltage drop, and needed a slightly higher voltage supply to work properly.

After that, zero problems.

[+] asveikau|1 year ago|reply
HAOS is absolutely terrible when it faces filesystem corruption. I faced this a few times when my HAOS image crashed. You can't even get it to fsck on boot when it happens. I think that's one big reason people on RPIs have issues. The FS is on an SD card, SD cards are flakey, and there's no good rescue path when the FS has issues.

I guess USB power is also historically not great on RPI. I haven't played with them in a few years but I remember needing powered hubs. That might explain issues with Zigbee and Z-wave dongles. Note also the '700 series' z-wave dongles have a lot of issues. You can update the firmware to fix some. Mine's been flakey and I'm on the latest firmware from ~2 weeks ago that's supposed to fix all of that.

I was running HAOS on VirtualBox, with the disk image on ZFS. I switched to running docker out of the same ZFS filesystem and it's much faster and more reliable, notably I don't get random filesystem corruption. Anecdote. YMMV.

[+] sockaddr|1 year ago|reply
I've also found pis to be unreliable in the long term. Even buying good SD cards doesn't help. It's always something. Broken storage, brown out (I'm using the recommended power supply), sudden lack of communication over the eth port, etc.

I've found that just getting an old toughbook is much more reliable for projects that don't require miniaturization.

[+] Cheer2171|1 year ago|reply
Counterpoint: my Pi 4 4gb booting a USB3 SSD drive has been working fine for years. The SD cards are what kill Pis
[+] gedy|1 year ago|reply
I mostly agree, but found that HA isn't too bad on Pi if you don't continuously update the versions even if it suggests. I had a lot of trouble keeping a stable system until I just ignored them until I really needed to install on new system, etc.
[+] kayodelycaon|1 year ago|reply
I've been using a raspberry pi 4 for 2 years with no issues. You need a good, clean power source or you can have all kinds of issues. Having good ventilation won't hurt. You also need a good sdcard that can handle a large volume of writes.
[+] punnerud|1 year ago|reply
The problem is often that people use small MicroSD (8-16GB) that don’t support the number of writes to SQLite3 that HA does.

Have been using Western Digital purple 64GB MicroSD for years without problems (support the same number of writes as SSD)

[+] hughesjj|1 year ago|reply
100% this, my rpi3 kept running out of ram running all the services I wanted on home assistant so I moved it to proxmox and use the roi+touchscreen as a dedicated web client for the interface now

Be careful with the beelinks though, I have one with a nice ryzen API that's basically useless because the USB gave out and it's a chicken and the egg problem trying to get Bluetooth on it. Haven't gotten around to attempt manually configuring Bluetooth on the SSD yet (from another computer) or otherwise fixing those ports

[+] domrdy|1 year ago|reply
Or a 2012 MacMini, $~90 on ebay. Quiet, small form factor, runs Linux.
[+] n8henrie|1 year ago|reply
I've been running hass for quite some time, for years directly in a python venv on a Pi2, then Pi3, and now happily on a Pi4 4GB for several years. Runs so well I decided not to upgrade to a 5. Use both zigbee and zwave.

Currently running in docker, which was a godsend when I migrated from Raspbian to NixOS about 18 months or so ago with no issues.

Have used an SSD wherever possible, perhaps that's why it's been so stable.

I use the GPIO, which is one reason I've stuck with the Pi!

[+] ziml77|1 year ago|reply
I had problems when running HA on an RPi as well. It was never very snappy or stable in its connection with the Z-Wave network. I don't know if it was too much power being drawn by the dongle or what, but switching over to a mini ThinkStation that I got for cheap on Ebay solved the problem. Not only perfectly stable with the connection to the Z-Wave network but also just overall more responsive.
[+] import|1 year ago|reply
I ran it on RPI 3 and 4 with SSD for years and had zero issues. Now moved to the mini pc but RPI still hosting other stuff and works rock solid.
[+] pawelduda|1 year ago|reply
Been running HA and a couple other services on RPi 4 with old SSD and DietPi as the OS, behind tailscale for 2 years. It needs a restart maybe once in a blue moon, and it's back online in 1 min, that's it.
[+] arkmm|1 year ago|reply
I've been running off a Raspberry Pi for years and it's been very stable. The main things for me were to use a good SD card, to use Ethernet instead of Wifi, and to also reboot the Pi daily via an automation.
[+] drumttocs8|1 year ago|reply
Recommend just running it on a VM in proxmox or similar
[+] Sleaker|1 year ago|reply
Had rpi3b with HA for nearly 4 years now without any problems at all, not sure where your issues come from but I feel like mine is cake.
[+] delichon|1 year ago|reply
I'm about to buy a Pi 5 for a Pi-hole. Does the same advice apply to that?
[+] jki275|1 year ago|reply
Pis are basically toys. They have a function, but it isn't running servers.

I use an old Mac mini.

[+] kkfx|1 year ago|reply
I've pip-install it in my homeserver (a small celeron with enough ram and storage) BUT I have a note to all HA users and devs: why the hell keep insisting on the WebUI for configuring, it's NOT reproducible nor simple.

Oh, of course, for a casual user it's simple, unfortunately no casual users know about HA or how to physically integrate HA in a smart home, so the idea of making a generic end-user system it's a failure in principle, no matter the implementation. Aside nothing is forever so even if for some it's easier to go for a WebUI, when it will break, because it will (and with HA I've experienced issues various time, an update at a time) you need to waste big time instead of simply adapting a damn simple config.

Hell, even NixOS with it's damn nix language is enormously simpler than the YAML hell + WebUI of HA. And yes, NixOS is far more stable and simple than playing with an entire distro just to run a Pythonic app.

[+] dharbin|1 year ago|reply
Can it automate a cutout of Michael Jordan attached to a model train set?
[+] jeroenhd|1 year ago|reply
You jest, but with an ESP32 flashed with ESPHome and a few dollars of electronics to regulate the power, I think controlling model trains would actually be quite doable. Your biggest challenge is probably dealing with network/scripting latency for events that need to happen in quick succession, like when dealing with switches.

Or, if you consider Lego DUPLO trains to be model trains, there's this: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/lego-duplo-train-contr...

Edit: there's also this https://github.com/aaron9589/esphome-for-model-railroading for the more serious model railroad enthusiast, though I'm not 100% sure if that actually controls the trains themselves (or just the switches and lights)

[+] moandcompany|1 year ago|reply
It could also automate ordering pizza delivery and the tipping process to "Keep the change, ya filthy animal"
[+] paradox460|1 year ago|reply
There are dcc systems that run on Arduino or raspberry pi, and expose an API interface. Could control one via home assistant
[+] bobchadwick|1 year ago|reply
I used this last week! I was out of town and a friend texted me letting me know the lights in my house were on. I got such a sense of joy in knowing that it was working as intended.
[+] jitl|1 year ago|reply
I use a normal automation to turn on the lights every day at sundown, and to turn off the lights every night at ($BEDTIME + 1hr), just as part of daily life. I don't need anything tricky to simulate that pattern when I'm traveling; I just don't disable the automation. I wonder how many people using HomeAssitant for their lights are manually turning lights on and off all the time. I would think most people would set up a daily or weekday + weeknight schedule and be done with it.
[+] orev|1 year ago|reply
I did this for a long time with timer switches that could be programmed similarly, and switching to HA wasn’t some huge change, it was just nicer. I had to periodically make sure the clock was correct on them, as they would drift a few minutes, and the interface itself was via small LCD screen and buttons.

HA is just a nicer experience, but I wouldn’t say it (or any home automation) is a “need”. It’s better seen as something for tech people to tinker with once they’ve settled a bit in life and are looking for something to do.

[+] billfor|1 year ago|reply
I use a rule-based automation in OpenHab (similar to HA) to randomly pick a light from a group and toggle it after a random interval, and it repeats the process every 10 minutes from 4pm to 11pm. I find this better than relying on prior history since there is no guarantee that my prior pattern of occupancy would be applicable to a vacation period. Better to just randomly cycle random lights - that will confuse them ;-)
[+] dostick|1 year ago|reply
Exactly! What’s the point of that if most of people have evening lights and blinds automated to run daily.
[+] closewith|1 year ago|reply
We have some automations, but mostly use homebridge and Apple Home scenes controlled by presence, smart switches, Siri, and the app. I'd imagine that's 10x-100x more common than pure time based automations based on the HA fora.
[+] Fokamul|1 year ago|reply
Hm I'm not sure if this helps. Because thieves will first knock on doors, even for tens of minutes. Ring etc. Normally people will open and thief will say some BS and go away.

Cameras with backup power and backup internet connection is your first priority.

[+] Geezus_42|1 year ago|reply
Funny because I never answer my door when anyone knocks. If you're knocking on my door it's because I don't know you, which means I probably don't want to talk to you. Anyone who knows me knows to call or text before they come by.
[+] enobrev|1 year ago|reply
Simulated presence in our home: Motion-triggered lights and a cat
[+] starxidas|1 year ago|reply
Sure, but cats sleep around 35 hours a day.
[+] nurettin|1 year ago|reply
I need some of those cat-sensitive motion triggers.
[+] bloopernova|1 year ago|reply
Slightly related, please forgive the offtopicness: has anyone implemented a DIY UWB location base + beacon/tag?

I ask because my neurodivergent wife loses things, and often Tile either doesn't work or isn't load enough. I read that UWB promises 10cm² or 10cm³ accuracy, which would be ideal for finding lost stuff.

I've seen a couple of commercial offerings, but they didn't have pricing.

[+] Rebelgecko|1 year ago|reply
I used some Decawave kits ~a decade ago and they worked pretty well... however if you want to DIY something as usable as Airtags I think the main struggle would be getting the package compact and with low power consumption (unless you want to track large things and are fine with a chonky battery)
[+] __sy__|1 year ago|reply
I don't know if it will count as DIY, but take a look at LEGIC and their devkit for this. We (seam) work with them and I recall seeing a couple of startups doing demo's of their UWB solution at their LEGIC Connect conference.
[+] jitl|1 year ago|reply
The generic stuff in the "Find My" ecosystem works quite well. It's not DIY, but most things have UWB finding that works whole-house for me.
[+] hunter2_|1 year ago|reply
Growing up, my parents always made sure the radio was on, slightly louder than a normal volume, whenever we left the house. Funny seeing how that idea of presence simulation has evolved.
[+] deadbunny|1 year ago|reply
This has been on my list of things to do for a while, saves me a job. Thanks for sharing.