Far as damaging the environment, I'm a contrarian. If people tell me "blah blah we're forcing you to help the environment because we think that's a good thing you should be doing" I'll do the opposite. At least for me they need to be saying "we're going to pass a law that forces you to pollute because our opinion is that is what you should be doing" and it is at that point that I would try to save the environment
For decades to come, we won't have 100% clean energy systems everywhere. Even if you power your AC 100% by solar energy, that solar energy won't be used to displace dirty energy elsewhere. Even if you make absolutely sure you have additional solar energy (I don't know how you'd do that), you still have production emissions for the solar panels.
For the forseeable future, if you can do X with less energy than before, that's an improvement.
During calm hot sunny days in the summer (so.. the ones when you need AC the most), we already have surplus of solar energy and serious problems (in some places) what to do with that energy (you have to dump it somewhere).
The typically used R32 does not cause any ozone issues. It is a climate gas, but only if it escapes from the pipes which it doesn‘t if properly installed.
Except of course they're related: AC uses energy and much of our current energy generation releases carbon.
I don't agree with the degrowth framing at all. The article's intro actually suggests growth is expected and desirable:
> By one estimate, the number of room-cooling ACs could nearly triple between now and 2050.
> These additional units will save lives, make cities liveable and stave off losses in economic productivity.
Your framing is interesting too! Is there a name for discussing technology only in the abstract, ignoring it's connection to the real world? Ideological pedantry?
I mean, AC will literally save lives during the increasingly frequent heat waves of the future. AC is not the problem, making sure the energy that powers it is renewable is the problem.
When I move to my next place, I will be installing a solar panel and battery setup sufficient keep the fridge, freezer, and at least one room of the house cool during a heat wave. I don't really care how much it costs.
Not really. The Sun radiates about 1000W/m^2 of energy at Earth distances. AC won't hold a candle to that. That's why global warming conversations focus on greenhouses gases that trap the Sun's energy, not industrial processes that release heat.
> The ideological framing of the degrowth movement is all around us.
If growth (which itself is super vague; growth of what? benefiting whom?) was always a good thing without exception, this complaint would automatically be valid. However we're awash in ideological framing all around us supporting growth, even when growth is—yes Virginia—sometimes detrimental. An ideological counterbalance is desperately needed.
Wouldn't it be weird if growth of everything was always a good think in any scenario, forever? :-\ Maybe we should be just slightly more selective and data-driven than that...
Tade0|1 year ago
The currently used R32 is equivalent to 675x the CO2, so a typical AC unit will have several tonne equivalents of it inside.
That's still an upgrade over its predecessor - R410a, for which the same figure was 2088x.
Heat pumps have the same problem, which is why the recently deployed 33MW district heating heat pump in Helsinki uses CO2 as a refrigerant:
https://www.man-es.com/company/press-releases/press-details/...
quonn|1 year ago
In countries with proper regulation and professional certification this is not an issue.
amy-petrik-214|1 year ago
Far as damaging the environment, I'm a contrarian. If people tell me "blah blah we're forcing you to help the environment because we think that's a good thing you should be doing" I'll do the opposite. At least for me they need to be saying "we're going to pass a law that forces you to pollute because our opinion is that is what you should be doing" and it is at that point that I would try to save the environment
hannob|1 year ago
For decades to come, we won't have 100% clean energy systems everywhere. Even if you power your AC 100% by solar energy, that solar energy won't be used to displace dirty energy elsewhere. Even if you make absolutely sure you have additional solar energy (I don't know how you'd do that), you still have production emissions for the solar panels.
For the forseeable future, if you can do X with less energy than before, that's an improvement.
ajsnigrutin|1 year ago
Angostura|1 year ago
In the current reality, where global CO2 emissions continue to rise, yes it is harmful.
The ideological framing of ostriches is all around us.
scheme271|1 year ago
s17tnet|1 year ago
quonn|1 year ago
itishappy|1 year ago
I don't agree with the degrowth framing at all. The article's intro actually suggests growth is expected and desirable:
> By one estimate, the number of room-cooling ACs could nearly triple between now and 2050.
> These additional units will save lives, make cities liveable and stave off losses in economic productivity.
Your framing is interesting too! Is there a name for discussing technology only in the abstract, ignoring it's connection to the real world? Ideological pedantry?
unknown|1 year ago
[deleted]
wing-_-nuts|1 year ago
When I move to my next place, I will be installing a solar panel and battery setup sufficient keep the fridge, freezer, and at least one room of the house cool during a heat wave. I don't really care how much it costs.
herbst|1 year ago
Edit:// serious question. Maybe it doesn't matter, I don't know.
itishappy|1 year ago
schiffern|1 year ago
https://drawdown.org/solutions/refrigerant-management
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6QCPN6KLB8
If growth (which itself is super vague; growth of what? benefiting whom?) was always a good thing without exception, this complaint would automatically be valid. However we're awash in ideological framing all around us supporting growth, even when growth is—yes Virginia—sometimes detrimental. An ideological counterbalance is desperately needed.Wouldn't it be weird if growth of everything was always a good think in any scenario, forever? :-\ Maybe we should be just slightly more selective and data-driven than that...