[drewrv]

From using various VR systems, a hololens, and reading reviews of the vision pro I really feel like hand gestures are a bad way to interact with AR systems. They might work in a pinch (heh) but some sort of small controller that can act as a pointer and has a button or two is superior in every way.

It's interesting that meta went through the effort of bundling an accessory but stuck with hand gestures anyway.

[jayd16]

6dof input from hand gestures is a killer feature but it has to be rock solid. So far only controllers can do it but it's getting much better every year.

Haptic feedback, discrete buttons and precise analog input from controllers are also very important. The downside of controllers is that your hands are full and it's just not feasible for an all day wearable.

Hopefully someone figures out a good compromise be it rings or gloves or whatever.

[Morphiak]

My killer feature will be a keyboard (/mouse) in a wristband(s), which comes along with, or nearby 6dof (also worthy, but not a personal grail).

Electromyography is an awesome technology, among other reasons, because it can (or will) detect neural signals below the activation (movement) threshold, meaning you should be able to train yourself to type without moving your fingers. A viable way to thought control without the invasive aspects of other approaches.

Back in the nineties, I said the computer user fifty years from then would look like a hippy. Headband (neural interface), sunglasses (I thought monitor, but AR is cooler), and a crystal around their neck (optical computer, maybe a miss, we'll see what the next decade brings, a slab in a pocket will do for now). Given my zero trust of end stage capitalism near my noggin, wristbands are an excellent transitional, as long as they're local (or can be made so, happy jail breaking)

[threeseed]

The haptic feedback you get from touching your thumb and forefinger to simulate a click is actually better than a button because it feels more organic and natural.

Where it falls apart is not being able to feel yourself touching objects which nothing other than a full glove is going to be able to simulate. Controllers and rings provide no benefit over Apple's approach.

[jazzyjackson]

I agree, and I also think that walking around to items positioned statically in space is a really dumb way to do embodied computing. I mean if an app is associated with your kitchen fridge or whatever fine, pin it to your kitchen fridge, but if I'm going to be enveloped in an omnidirectional high def display, I want a way to bring the windows to me, not have to move my body to different windows.

Anyway, Logitech made an awesome little handheld keyboard for home theater PCs, called DiNovo Mini HTPC, I was able to pair it with Vision Pro.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/226367904044?_skw=Logitech+DiNovo+M...

[vunderba]

1. Tying AR to a static point

Uses: Being able to physically walk around a life-sized 3d model of an engine, human body, etc.

2. Tying AR to a point relative to the user

Uses: Heads-up Display notifications, virtual screens, etc.

These things are not mutually exclusive.

Even once you've placed a "AR object" at some static absolute location, I'm sure you can scroll through the list of active processes similar at any time, and snap it back to your body.

As somebody who hates the sedentary aspect of software engineering, I messed around with a friend's Apple Vision Pro and fell in love with the spatial computing aspect. I do a great deal of pacing when working through problems, and the ability to physically move around multiple virtualized workspaces was really engaging.

[underlipton]

I disagree. Physical activity enhances mental well-being and the quality of cognition. A system that allows one to design their workspace with regular movement in mind is going to be a boon for people who are usually chained to a desk for purely virtual work, forced to navigate cramped UI with their finger. Say I'm editing a video; you're telling me my media bin could be a literal bin a few steps away, allowing me to physically separate my "media selection" task from my "cutting and moving clips" task? Knowing that this kind of encapsulation helps to improve focus, and the movement would help with circulation and stress? Sign me up.

[drewrv]

That’s a great little keyboard, it reminds me of early smartphone keyboards in a good way.

I wonder if Apple decided against a controller in order to allow third party solutions to flourish . They can take their time and see what people gravitate towards.

[cyanydeez]

Most of these products arnted aimed at consumers, but industrial tech. While the critque is great for enthusiasts, it makes no sense for what this type of industrial use will occur.

[_moof]

This is going to be hilarious in turbulence.

[dagmx]

Imho hand gestures are the best way to interact with XR.

If your only experience is the HoloLens, you’re roughly a decade out of date with how well it can work today.

There’s also not been much until the Vision Pro that combines eye tracking with hand tracking which is what’s really needed.

You should really try the Vision Pro, because it really does move hand tracking to the point where it’s the best primary interaction method. Controllers might be good for some stuff , in the way an Apple Pencil is, but most interactions do not need it.

[closewith]

If the state of the art is the Vision Pro, then all the GP'S complaints are valid. It's not anywhere near good enough to replace a controller.

[jazzyjackson]

I'll have to dig mine out of the box and try it again, version 1 of the os basically had one gesture which was click. I hate the gaze and click interface, it works OK for Netflix but invariably I would fall back to using the trackpad on my MacBook to actually do any work.

[talldayo]

Hand tracking has also been pretty great on the Quest for some time now. I've got the first-gen one, and you can very comfortably type/navigate the UI with no controllers.

[nine_k]

Traditional personal computers have both a keyboard and a mouse / trackpad. Game controllers have both joysticks and buttons.

While analog manipulation devices (mice, trackpads, joysticks, the 3D controllers) are good at physically precise manipulation and navigation, keys and buttons are good at symbolic / textual entry and logical / symbolic navigation with comparatively very low effort and high speed.

When VR / AR acquires a fast and low-effort symbolic input mode, comparable in efficiency to a keyboard, and it becomes possible to build highly productive interfaces driven by it, like Vim and MS Excel are driven by the keyboard, many interesting developments will happen.

[cubefox]

Except that AR glasses that require a controller are totally impractical when using them in everyday life.

[yimiqidage001]

I very much agree with you, there is no practical scene for AR glasses yet

[threeseed]

Kind of a pointless comment to make if you haven't actually tried the Vision Pro.

Its interface is unlike anything else and really can only be experienced in person. The ability to simply glance at UI controls and slightly move your head whilst resting on your leg really does feel like magic.

And the UI is built around it so if you are looking for example at a sidebar it will lock you into choosing the options unless you substantially look away. This makes using it much easier and faster than a controller.

[adastra22]

For clicking buttons on virtual screens, maybe. For 6DOF interaction with the virtual world, it is absolutely horrid.

[baby]

while I agree, you also just don't have a choice as otherwise you force the user to carry a controller with them all the time (and even then the experience sucks because you have to take out/reach for your controller every time you want to usei t)

[kybernetikos]

The article makes it sound like it's hand gestures plus gaze tracking which is a lot better.

Also the gestures are recognised by something you wear rather than cameras, so I'd expect them to be more reliable.

[navaed01]

It depends why you think hand gestures are bad. The wrist babd is detecting brain waves and allows for hand gestures while the hands are out of the field of view of the cameras.

[Jcowell]

> and reading reviews of the vision pro

Try it out , it’s really neat

[Mistletoe]

>sort of small controller that can act as a pointer and has a button or two is superior in every way.

Something named after a small rodent that we use already. And a monitor that we use already. Then you are cooking. You've invented the desktop pc.