[makin]

I'm sorry if this is strawmanning you, but I feel you're basically saying it's in the public's interest to give more power to Intellectual Property law, which historically hasn't worked out so well for the public.

[jbstack]

The law already exists. Applying the law in court doesn't "give more power" to it. To do that you'd have to change the law.

[joncrocks]

Which law are you referencing?

Copyright as far as I understand is focused on wholesale reproduction/distribution of works, rather than using material for generation of new works.

If something is available without contractual restriction it is available to all. Whether it's me reading a book, or a LLM reading a book, both could be considered the same.

Where the law might have something to say is around the output of said trained models, this might be interesting to see given the potential of small-scale outputs. i.e. If I output something to a small number of people, how does one detect/report that level of infringement. Does the `potential` of infringement start to matter.

[atoav]

Nah. What he is saying is that the existing law should be applied equally. As of now intellectual property as a right only works for you if you are a big corporation.

[xdennis]

> you're basically saying it's in the public's interest to give more power to Intellectual Property law

Not necessarily. An alternative could be to say that all models trained on data which hasn't been explicitly licensed for AI-training should be made public.

[probably_wrong]

I think the second alternative works too: either you sue these companies to the ground for copyright infringement at a scale never seen, OR you decriminalize copyright infringement.

The problem (as far as this specific discussion goes) is not that IP laws exist, but rather that they are only being applied in one direction.

[fallingknife]

HN generally hated (and rightly so, IMO) strict copyright IP protection laws. Then LLMs came along and broke everybody's brain and turned this place into hardline copyright extremists.

[triceratops]

Or you know, maybe we're pissed about the heads-I-win-tails-you-lose nature of the current copyright regime.

[vouaobrasil]

The difference is that before, intellectual property law was used by corporations to enrich themselves. Now intellectual property law could theoretically be used to combat an even bigger enemy: big tech stealing all possible jobs. It's just a matter of practicality, like all law is.