[darren0]

The transition to Wayland also seems to correlate with the adoption of client side decorations (CSD). This "modern" approach destroys the traditional UX of XFCE as seen by recent changes in the settings manager. I fear for the future of XFCE. The advantage of XFCE for me has always been that it's a stable implementation of a traditional Win98/XP UX. I hope they don't adopt more Gnome3 patterns.

[kelnos]

> The transition to Wayland also seems to correlate with the adoption of client side decorations (CSD)

Not really. The GNOME/GTK folks were already on the CSD bandwagon well before Wayland. Wayland compositors are free to draw their own decorations (and xfwm4 will indeed continue doing that once it's a Wayland compositor), and one of the actually neat things about Wayland is that there is a protocol that allows the compositor to tell applications not to draw their own decorations. (Whereas on X11 an app can tell the WM it will draw CSDs and the WM can't do a thing about it.)

Certainly GNOME has gone all the way to CSDs (IIRC if an app on GNOME doesn't draw CSDs, they get no decorations at all), but that has nothing to do with Wayland.

[braiamp]

What has this to do with wayland or XFCE? The only major DE that is using client side decorations is gnome. This has been true since 2018:

> I heard that GNOME is currently trying to lobby for all applications implementing CSD. One of the arguments seems to be that CSD is a must on Wayland. That’s of course not the case. Nothing in Wayland enforces CSD. Wayland itself is as ignorant about this as X11. [...] In fact we created a protocol (supported by GTK) that allows to negotiate with the Wayland compositor whether to use CSD or SSD.

From https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2018/01/server-side-d...

Wayland is agnostic, and it's up to the compositor and application to decide what to do while operating under wayland.

[tristan957]

CSD has nothing to do with UX. CSD just means the application draws the window controls and borders.

[cwillu]

The application having the ability to change how the title bar works is an anti-feature for me.

[yjftsjthsd-h]

The application drawing window controls and borders becomes a UX problem when it doesn't do it right.

[kelnos]

> CSD has nothing to do with UX.

Sure it does. Allowing windows to draw their own decorations, often in different ways and with different styles and themes, and not respecting the settings in xfwm4 as to what window-control buttons should be drawn (and where)... that's a huge UX issue.