Almost all of the "product X vs Y" results are AI ramblings now. This growth of the dead Internet is making me want to sign up for Kagi. We're going to need a certification for human generated content at some point.
I just bought a home and I have been googling the best way to tackle certain home improvement projects - like how to prepare trim for painting. Virtually every result is some kind of content farm of AI-generated bullshit with advertising between every paragraph, an autoplay video (completely unrelated) that scrolls with the page, a modal popup asking me to accept cookies, a second rapid-fire modal popup asking me to join the newsletter to "become a friend"
For better or worse, Reddit is really the only place to go find legitimate information anymore.
For this kind of search, YouTube and TikTok (yes, TikTok) are your best bet. Videos are not (completely) flooded by AI (yet) and you can find pretty much anything about manual work.
I prefer text content to videos by a long shot, but genuine, human text content is almost dead. Reddit might be one of the rare exceptions for now. There are also random, still active, old school forums for lots of things but they tend to become extremely hard to find.
> Like its predecessor in book format, the CD-ROM version offers easy-to-follow, step-by-step instructions on more than 100 common household problems, from how to fix a leaky faucet to repairing hardwood floors. What's more, the CD-ROM version incorporates animation and narration to help make the repair project even easier to understand and complete. Instructions can be viewed one step at a time or all at once, and, if desired, can be printed out and taken directly to the repair site. Included with each repair project is the projected time needed to complete the work, estimated cost, and a list of materials and tools needed.
Owner/builder here, of a 1939 home. I invested in a home reference library part way through my own improvements; I should have done it before even lifting a screwdriver. Renovations (https://www.bookfinder.com/search_s/?title=Renovation%205th%...), from Taunton Press, is the first source I consult when starting a home improvement project. Chapter 18 is all about painting. Many of the other titles from Taunton are excellent, but Renovations is unmatched in it's coverage.
All of the flat white MDF trim you buy is primed and ready for painting, too.
I have an older car and a newer car. I can find out how to do any repair on my old car because it existed during the old internet when people did all kinds of write ups.
The information on working on my new car is non-existent other than Youtube videos where the majority is just a random dude who knows nothing filming himself doing a horrible self repair.
> For better or worse, Reddit is really the only place to go find legitimate information anymore.
This is frightening and, I fear, true.
But I'd also add one odd little counterpoint: some of the most useful discussions and learning experiences I've had in the last four years have happened in private Facebook groups. As soon as the incentive to build a following using growth-hacking and AI -- which private groups mitigate to a greater extent -- is taken away, you get back to the helpful stuff.
The FreeCAD group on Facebook is great, for example. And there are private photography groups, 3D printing groups, music groups etc., where people have an incentive to be authentic.
Public Facebook feeds are drowning in AI slop. But people who manage their own groups are keeping the spirit alive. It's almost at the point where I think Facebook will ultimately morph into a paid groups platform.
The video sites are gonna be way better for this. Or reddit. I don’t know how much longer that will be true with AI video generation becoming cheaper over time though
Yeah, I've had this experience as well. I'll have to go 4 or 5 pages deep in the results to get to a forum thread someone wrote in 2005 referencing a product that doesn't exist anymore plus a bunch of advice that's mostly still applicable.
This was probably always the likely outcome of an internet economy that revolves around the production and monetization of "content".
We started by putting advertisements on existing content, then moved to social networking and social media, which was essentially an engine for crowdsourcing the production of greater amounts of content against which to show advertisements. Because money is up for grabs, producing content is now a significant business, and as such, technology is meeting the demand with a way to produce content that is cheaper than the money it can make.
The problem of moderating undesirable human-generated content was already starting to intrude into this business model, but now generative tools are also producing undesirable content faster than moderation can keep up. And at some point of saturation, people will become disinterested, and tools which could previously use algorithmic heuristics to determine which content is good vs bad will begin to become useless. The only way out I can see is something along the lines of human curation of human-generated content. But I'm not sure there is a business model there at the scale the industry demands.
It's not just images. I frequently get genAI word salad in the top three to five results when I google anything that could be considered a common question. You don't even realize at first when you start reading. Then it makes you start to question the things that aren't obviously genAI. You can sort of tell the kinds of things that a human might be wrong about, the ways in which they're wrong, how they sound when they're wrong, how likely they are to be wrong, the formats and platforms wrongness exists within, how often they are wrong and how other humans respond to that. AI is a different beast. No intuition or experience can tell you when reasonable-sounding AI is wrong.
Our entire framework of unconscious heuristics for ranking the quality of communicated information being rendered useless overnight may be a recipe for insanity and misery. Virtually nothing has made me this genuinely sad about technology in all my life.
I have a hard time explaining why, perhaps because I did not know what a baby peacock looks like, but this somehow really drove home the "dark side of AI" for me.
I have gotten used to trusting search results somewhat. Sure there would be oddball results and nearly non-sensical ones, but they would be scarce through a sea of relevant images. Now with this, I would be blind to the things I don't know and as someone who grew up it with Google "just being there", it truly scares me.
Google is going to have to solve for this somehow if they want to remain relevant, right? If searching for an image and generating the image yield the same result, what's the point of image search any more?
Most egregious is the one copying the title from Snopes' "Video Genuinely Shows White 'Baby Peacock'?" (with the question mark cut off). A page all about how the picture isn't a real baby peacock.
But also, if you search the more accurate term, "peachick", you seem to get 100% real images, although half the pages call them "baby peacocks".
In the near future, a significant portion of YouTube videos and podcasts will likely be AI-generated (e.g., through tools like Notebook LM).
However, I'm uncertain whether audiences will truly enjoy this AI-generated content. Personally, I prefer content created by humans—it feels more authentic and engaging to me.
It’s crucial for AI tools to include robust detection mechanisms, such as reliable watermarks, to help other platforms identify AI-generated content. Unfortunately, current detection tools for AI-generated audio are still lacking - https://www.npr.org/2024/04/05/1241446778/deepfake-audio-det...
Consider whether you'd enjoy listening to AI-generated podcasts. I believe people might be okay with shows they create themselves, but are less likely to appreciate 'podcasts' ai-generated by others.
After Google continued to make it progressively more difficult to use their Image search to navigate/download to the actual image I wrote an image search tool that could be hot keyed from your OS to search the google image repository and copy to clipboard in a fast manner using a custom Google Search Engine id.
About a year back I found that 90% of the results I was getting were AI generated, so I added a flag "No AI" which basically acts as a quick and dirty filter by limiting results to pre-2022. It's not perfect but it works as a stopgap measure.
Wouldn't surprise me if in a few years Google, for certain keywords:
- autogenerates URLs (tha look legit)
- autogenerates content for such URLs (that look kinda legit)
All of this would be possible if one is using Chrome (otherwise the fake URLs wouldn't lead to anywhere). Of course, full of ads.
Think about it, some people are not really looking for some web site that talks about "baby peacocks". They are looking for baby peacocks: content, images, video. If Google can autogenerate good-enough content, then these kind of users would be satisfied (may not even notice the difference).
Maybe Google ditches the URL and all: type keywords, and get content (with ads)!
> would be possible if one is using Chrome (otherwise the fake URLs wouldn't lead to anywhere).
Didn't they do something like that with AMP. I recall that if you were using chrome and visited an AMP site from Google the address bar would say site.com even though the content was being served from google.com.
I'm a part time maker and purchase a lot of designs off of Etsy to make into physical goods. I have to weed through so many AI images when purchasing designs off of Etsy now. I wish they required users to indicate if AI was used to produce the image so I could then filter them out.
Fitting that this is a copy paste submission taken from another source (linked in dupe comments), likely by a bot based on post history. The computers are turning on each other.
We can only hope they consume each other in some kind of survival-of-the-fittest type scenario, and when all is said and done, we can turn the last one off and set the clock back to 2015 and try again.
This phenomenon has been such a spur of motivation to start writing again. I love it.
The only way we can make sure the internet retains any goodness is by contributing good things to it. Passive consumption will rapidly turn into sub-mediocre drudgery. I suppose it already has.
Be the change you want to see, I guess. I’m a shitty writer, but at least I can beat the dissonant, bland, formulaic rambling of ChatGPT (here’s hoping, anyway).
I’m optimistic that a lot of us can keep something good going. We'll find ways to keep pockets of internet worth visiting, just like we did before search engines worked well.
There are a number of ways this might get solved, but I would speculate that it will generally be solved by adding image metadata that is signed by a certificate authority similar to the way SSL certificates are assigned to domains.
I think eventually all digital cameras and image scanners will securely hash and sign images just as forensic cameras do to certify that an image was "captured" instead of generated.
Of course this leaves a grey area for image editing applications such as Photoshop, so there may also need to be some other level of certificate base signing introduced there as well.
Hear me out: is that Wikipedia? I am sure people are submitting all sorts of AI-generated information, but it's probably getting rejected? (If someone better informed than me has any data one way or the other, I'm super curious)
LLMs are reinforced through adversarial training - you would essentially be playing a keep-up game with AI generated garbage that would get exponentially more difficult to pull ahead in.
There was this image that was circling some 20 years ago around and later, with the Internet becoming a cable tv-like service where you'd be a subscriber to particular big companies sites and additional "free-range" pages
So the pessimist in me can see the Internet being affected by the free-vs-premium formula: "basic" Internet with ads, tracking, AI fillers, limited access to +18 content, in the worst form comes with these pre-defined sites and "premium" that's free of these limitations but it also in time tries to squeeze more money from users - like "premium but with ads"
Ever since Sora I've been thinking about the overall death of the internet "content". It all came back stronger with Meta Movie Gen.
I know there are no girls on the internet, but this AI crap is on another level. Even if find a trustworthy creator, I might be seeing a fake video of them. Say I like MKBHD reviews, I will need to pay attention if I am really watching his video on his official channel.
My guard will have to be up so much, all the time, I actually don't think it will even be healthy to "consume content" anymore. Why live a life where almost everything I see can be a lie? Makes me not want to use any of this anymore.
[+] [-] kevin_thibedeau|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] whalesalad|1 year ago|reply
I just bought a home and I have been googling the best way to tackle certain home improvement projects - like how to prepare trim for painting. Virtually every result is some kind of content farm of AI-generated bullshit with advertising between every paragraph, an autoplay video (completely unrelated) that scrolls with the page, a modal popup asking me to accept cookies, a second rapid-fire modal popup asking me to join the newsletter to "become a friend"
For better or worse, Reddit is really the only place to go find legitimate information anymore.
[+] [-] thiht|1 year ago|reply
I prefer text content to videos by a long shot, but genuine, human text content is almost dead. Reddit might be one of the rare exceptions for now. There are also random, still active, old school forums for lots of things but they tend to become extremely hard to find.
[+] [-] eesmith|1 year ago|reply
For example, https://archive.org/details/stanleyhomerepai0000fine/page/14... links to the chapter "Painting Trim the Right Way" from the book Stanley Home Repairs, 2014.
Could also look at used book stores. Home repair hasn't changed much.
Edit: Could even fire up Wine and try the CD-ROM "Black & Decker Everyday Home Repairs" (published by Broderbund) at https://archive.org/details/BlackDeckerEverydayHomeRepairsBr... . https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3424503-everyday-home-re... says;
> Like its predecessor in book format, the CD-ROM version offers easy-to-follow, step-by-step instructions on more than 100 common household problems, from how to fix a leaky faucet to repairing hardwood floors. What's more, the CD-ROM version incorporates animation and narration to help make the repair project even easier to understand and complete. Instructions can be viewed one step at a time or all at once, and, if desired, can be printed out and taken directly to the repair site. Included with each repair project is the projected time needed to complete the work, estimated cost, and a list of materials and tools needed.
That sounds pretty nifty, actually!
[+] [-] tabbytown|1 year ago|reply
All of the flat white MDF trim you buy is primed and ready for painting, too.
[+] [-] _DeadFred_|1 year ago|reply
The information on working on my new car is non-existent other than Youtube videos where the majority is just a random dude who knows nothing filming himself doing a horrible self repair.
[+] [-] neaden|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] throwgfgfd25|1 year ago|reply
This is frightening and, I fear, true.
But I'd also add one odd little counterpoint: some of the most useful discussions and learning experiences I've had in the last four years have happened in private Facebook groups. As soon as the incentive to build a following using growth-hacking and AI -- which private groups mitigate to a greater extent -- is taken away, you get back to the helpful stuff.
The FreeCAD group on Facebook is great, for example. And there are private photography groups, 3D printing groups, music groups etc., where people have an incentive to be authentic.
Public Facebook feeds are drowning in AI slop. But people who manage their own groups are keeping the spirit alive. It's almost at the point where I think Facebook will ultimately morph into a paid groups platform.
[+] [-] EasyMark|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] simsla|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] throwway120385|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] lsy|1 year ago|reply
We started by putting advertisements on existing content, then moved to social networking and social media, which was essentially an engine for crowdsourcing the production of greater amounts of content against which to show advertisements. Because money is up for grabs, producing content is now a significant business, and as such, technology is meeting the demand with a way to produce content that is cheaper than the money it can make.
The problem of moderating undesirable human-generated content was already starting to intrude into this business model, but now generative tools are also producing undesirable content faster than moderation can keep up. And at some point of saturation, people will become disinterested, and tools which could previously use algorithmic heuristics to determine which content is good vs bad will begin to become useless. The only way out I can see is something along the lines of human curation of human-generated content. But I'm not sure there is a business model there at the scale the industry demands.
[+] [-] happytoexplain|1 year ago|reply
Our entire framework of unconscious heuristics for ranking the quality of communicated information being rendered useless overnight may be a recipe for insanity and misery. Virtually nothing has made me this genuinely sad about technology in all my life.
[+] [-] belval|1 year ago|reply
I have gotten used to trusting search results somewhat. Sure there would be oddball results and nearly non-sensical ones, but they would be scarce through a sea of relevant images. Now with this, I would be blind to the things I don't know and as someone who grew up it with Google "just being there", it truly scares me.
[+] [-] notamy|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] stebalien|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] claudiulodro|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] gs17|1 year ago|reply
But also, if you search the more accurate term, "peachick", you seem to get 100% real images, although half the pages call them "baby peacocks".
[+] [-] jsheard|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] wenbin|1 year ago|reply
However, I'm uncertain whether audiences will truly enjoy this AI-generated content. Personally, I prefer content created by humans—it feels more authentic and engaging to me.
It’s crucial for AI tools to include robust detection mechanisms, such as reliable watermarks, to help other platforms identify AI-generated content. Unfortunately, current detection tools for AI-generated audio are still lacking - https://www.npr.org/2024/04/05/1241446778/deepfake-audio-det...
[Edit] We just put together a list of notebooklm generated "podcasts": https://github.com/ListenNotes/notebooklm-generated-fake-pod...
Consider whether you'd enjoy listening to AI-generated podcasts. I believe people might be okay with shows they create themselves, but are less likely to appreciate 'podcasts' ai-generated by others.
[+] [-] vunderba|1 year ago|reply
About a year back I found that 90% of the results I was getting were AI generated, so I added a flag "No AI" which basically acts as a quick and dirty filter by limiting results to pre-2022. It's not perfect but it works as a stopgap measure.
https://github.com/scpedicini/truman-show
[+] [-] dakiol|1 year ago|reply
- autogenerates URLs (tha look legit)
- autogenerates content for such URLs (that look kinda legit)
All of this would be possible if one is using Chrome (otherwise the fake URLs wouldn't lead to anywhere). Of course, full of ads.
Think about it, some people are not really looking for some web site that talks about "baby peacocks". They are looking for baby peacocks: content, images, video. If Google can autogenerate good-enough content, then these kind of users would be satisfied (may not even notice the difference).
Maybe Google ditches the URL and all: type keywords, and get content (with ads)!
[+] [-] Crosseye_Jack|1 year ago|reply
Didn't they do something like that with AMP. I recall that if you were using chrome and visited an AMP site from Google the address bar would say site.com even though the content was being served from google.com.
[+] [-] Lockal|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] onemoresoop|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] timetraveller26|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] anal_reactor|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] 01HNNWZ0MV43FF|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] nelup20|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] speedgoose|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] giarc|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] andrewmunsell|1 year ago|reply
Whether they actually do this (and whether there's any incentive to do so), is obviously not a given
[+] [-] dawnerd|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] silisili|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] davesmylie|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] steve_adams_86|1 year ago|reply
The only way we can make sure the internet retains any goodness is by contributing good things to it. Passive consumption will rapidly turn into sub-mediocre drudgery. I suppose it already has.
Be the change you want to see, I guess. I’m a shitty writer, but at least I can beat the dissonant, bland, formulaic rambling of ChatGPT (here’s hoping, anyway).
I’m optimistic that a lot of us can keep something good going. We'll find ways to keep pockets of internet worth visiting, just like we did before search engines worked well.
[+] [-] Metricon|1 year ago|reply
I think eventually all digital cameras and image scanners will securely hash and sign images just as forensic cameras do to certify that an image was "captured" instead of generated.
Of course this leaves a grey area for image editing applications such as Photoshop, so there may also need to be some other level of certificate base signing introduced there as well.
[+] [-] viewtransform|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] ErikAugust|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] rwmj|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] Retr0id|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] claudiulodro|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] devmor|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] pndy|1 year ago|reply
So the pessimist in me can see the Internet being affected by the free-vs-premium formula: "basic" Internet with ads, tracking, AI fillers, limited access to +18 content, in the worst form comes with these pre-defined sites and "premium" that's free of these limitations but it also in time tries to squeeze more money from users - like "premium but with ads"
[+] [-] sbrother|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] prometheon1|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] readyplayernull|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] inerte|1 year ago|reply
I know there are no girls on the internet, but this AI crap is on another level. Even if find a trustworthy creator, I might be seeing a fake video of them. Say I like MKBHD reviews, I will need to pay attention if I am really watching his video on his official channel.
My guard will have to be up so much, all the time, I actually don't think it will even be healthy to "consume content" anymore. Why live a life where almost everything I see can be a lie? Makes me not want to use any of this anymore.
[+] [-] AStonesThrow|1 year ago|reply
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Pavo_cristatus_(...