>“Although X may not be a top priority for most advertisers in Brazil, the platform needs them more than they need it.”
Really does seem like it came down to this point. Musk hoped Brazilian users would get angry with the government, and they just downloaded bluesky instead. Musk lost a month of Brazilian revenue and gained nothing.
I followed some Brazilians on my (mostly unused) bluesky account. Will be interesting to see if they stick around there, return to twitter, or use both.
> Musk hoped Brazilian users would get angry with the government
It’s like when he claimed he’d “document in great detail” how the boycotting advertisers would kill Twitter, and was smugly confident “Earth” would care. Absolutely delusional. The interviewer even understandably struggled with that line of reasoning.
here we go again: criminal speech != free speech. A lot of, if not all of Alexandre de Moraes's decisions are around a real crime that happened Jan 8 2022 with a real coup attempt in Brazil (federal buildings were severely damaged). Some people pretend this didn't happen and come here and hide arguments behind free speech. These "censored" political influencers are investigated under the umbrella of this major case based on people who potentially had a major impact on influencing very simple people to commit crimes against democracy. Brazilian democracy is still at risk and should get support from digital platforms so we don't end up in a digital wild-wild west. This is still under secrecy investigation and the decisions cannot be judged by people who don't even have access to all the case material to begin with. I'm happy that Elon did the right thing. Hope he keeps collaborating with the law so we all can live in peace.
There was no "coup attempt". There was a protest. Occupying and damaging Brasília buildings is essentially the standard brazilian protest. It's happened before.
You call it a coup because they wanted the military to seize power. They didn't try to seize power for themselves, they wanted the military to rule over them. That's a valid political position. A coup attempt is the military actually trying something. An actual coup is the military succeeding at it. A thousand people with bibles and flags is not a coup or even an attempt at a coup. It's just a protest.
It's morbid fascination for me. Up until a few years ago his outward facing persona/"brand" was just a regular tech billionaire occasionally spinning up interesting new stuff. And then almost overnight it's like he had some kind of mental break and started saying and doing completely nonsensical things. Why? What happened? Was he always like this behind the scenes and it was hidden from us or did something happen to him?
a) Twitter was and to a lesser extent still is an important platform for news and information. And his role in furthering misinformation and division has influenced many people.
b) Musk’s unpredictable antics e.g. going to Trump rallys and setting up SuperPAC, being a government contractor and talking about Kamala assassinations is controversial and often newsworthy.
c) Rumors about Musk working with JD Vance and Peter Thiel to effectively run the government on behalf of Trump.
> Twitter/X was standing up for free speech by fighting back on this censorship, which does not seem constitutional per Brazil’s own laws. But I guess at some point their profits were more important than principles.
If this surprises you, you have not been paying attention. It’s the same ridiculous song and dance every time. He makes a big fuss of free speech and being an absolutist about it, but always caves in fast.
>Twitter/X was standing up for free speech by fighting back on this censorship, which does not seem constitutional per Brazil’s own laws. But I guess at some point their profits were more important than principles.
X cannot credibly maintain a pretense of standing up for free speech principles when the so-called "free speech absolutist" at the helm of X is curiously quiet about the world's largest censorship machine.
The constitutional right to free speech in Brazil is not an absolute right. In fact, it is a well-known fact to Brazilian legal scholars and practitioners that there are no absolute rights under Brazilian law - every right must be equally respected.
In particular, Brazilian law does not grant freedom of expression for political speech that has clearly defamatory intent, constitutes an insult, makes disparaging judgments or represents denigrating criticism. That may not be the letter of the law, but it is its spirit, as set by precedent and academic literature.
Keep in mind that this specific judge has the backing of the majority of the Supreme Court and, at the very least, the tacit support of congressmen who have the power to impeach him in case of abuses.
This is just a political fight to see who's got more power. Elon Musk isn’t really defending free speech — he follows authoritarian orders in other countries [1]. He’s just looking out for his own political interests and turning X into a playground for his political ideology.
And regarding the ban, yeah, there are definitely violations of free speech, just like in a bunch of other democracies, like the U.S., which banned TikTok [2].
No idea why you're getting downvoted. You're right.
The brazilian constitution literally contains the words:
> Any and all censorship of political and artistic nature is prohibited
These accounts were engaged in political speech. The judge ordered their banishment. This is a form of censorship of political nature. Therefore what he did is unconstitutional.
It's a very simple argument that I make every time the topic comes up. Nobody has refuted it to this day. I've had people on this site cite lesser laws, irrelevant laws, appeals to the authority of the judge... But they haven't refuted it.
lol. The sad part is that I as non-Brazilian had do tell a Brazilian friend that there was no way the genius would get away with making fun of officials of a country such a Brazil.
I am happy they held their own against a bully such the genius. As for the internal issues in Brazil, I told my friend that Elon doesn’t give a crap about it, those issues are for the people in Brazil to solve.
Elon Musk doesn't have an army, and Brazil does. So the guys with guns win?
China made it clear that boycotting a country doesn't accomplish anything. Nobody supporting Elon on speech is upset that he bluffed and lost... that's life.
[+] [-] sigmar|1 year ago|reply
Really does seem like it came down to this point. Musk hoped Brazilian users would get angry with the government, and they just downloaded bluesky instead. Musk lost a month of Brazilian revenue and gained nothing.
I followed some Brazilians on my (mostly unused) bluesky account. Will be interesting to see if they stick around there, return to twitter, or use both.
[+] [-] hinkley|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] latexr|1 year ago|reply
It’s like when he claimed he’d “document in great detail” how the boycotting advertisers would kill Twitter, and was smugly confident “Earth” would care. Absolutely delusional. The interviewer even understandably struggled with that line of reasoning.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=U_M_uvDChJQ&t=1m39s
[+] [-] matheusmoreira|1 year ago|reply
Those are not mutually exclusive. Brazilians straight up protested this judge and his actions.
[+] [-] hggigg|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] marcosdumay|1 year ago|reply
Oh, he lost more than that.
Twitter is big because of the network effect, and the network just got smaller.
[+] [-] MuffinFlavored|1 year ago|reply
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[+] [-] bozonaro|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] matheusmoreira|1 year ago|reply
You call it a coup because they wanted the military to seize power. They didn't try to seize power for themselves, they wanted the military to rule over them. That's a valid political position. A coup attempt is the military actually trying something. An actual coup is the military succeeding at it. A thousand people with bibles and flags is not a coup or even an attempt at a coup. It's just a protest.
[+] [-] decremental|1 year ago|reply
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[+] [-] xyst|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] declan_roberts|1 year ago|reply
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[+] [-] p1necone|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] threeseed|1 year ago|reply
b) Musk’s unpredictable antics e.g. going to Trump rallys and setting up SuperPAC, being a government contractor and talking about Kamala assassinations is controversial and often newsworthy.
c) Rumors about Musk working with JD Vance and Peter Thiel to effectively run the government on behalf of Trump.
[+] [-] blackeyeblitzar|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] latexr|1 year ago|reply
If this surprises you, you have not been paying attention. It’s the same ridiculous song and dance every time. He makes a big fuss of free speech and being an absolutist about it, but always caves in fast.
https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-05-24/under-el...
https://www.vice.com/en/article/elon-musk-censors-twitter-in...
Not to mention when he censors stuff just because he doesn’t personally like it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/07/technology/twitter-substa...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/15/elon-m...
[+] [-] curt15|1 year ago|reply
X cannot credibly maintain a pretense of standing up for free speech principles when the so-called "free speech absolutist" at the helm of X is curiously quiet about the world's largest censorship machine.
[+] [-] thimabi|1 year ago|reply
In particular, Brazilian law does not grant freedom of expression for political speech that has clearly defamatory intent, constitutes an insult, makes disparaging judgments or represents denigrating criticism. That may not be the letter of the law, but it is its spirit, as set by precedent and academic literature.
Keep in mind that this specific judge has the backing of the majority of the Supreme Court and, at the very least, the tacit support of congressmen who have the power to impeach him in case of abuses.
[+] [-] rwietter|1 year ago|reply
And regarding the ban, yeah, there are definitely violations of free speech, just like in a bunch of other democracies, like the U.S., which banned TikTok [2].
[1]: https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/internacional/en/world/2024/04...
[2]: https://www.npr.org/2024/04/24/1246663779/biden-ban-tiktok-u...
[+] [-] matheusmoreira|1 year ago|reply
The brazilian constitution literally contains the words:
> Any and all censorship of political and artistic nature is prohibited
These accounts were engaged in political speech. The judge ordered their banishment. This is a form of censorship of political nature. Therefore what he did is unconstitutional.
It's a very simple argument that I make every time the topic comes up. Nobody has refuted it to this day. I've had people on this site cite lesser laws, irrelevant laws, appeals to the authority of the judge... But they haven't refuted it.
[+] [-] Pesthuf|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] seanw444|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] ithkuil|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] limapedro|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] mr90210|1 year ago|reply
I am happy they held their own against a bully such the genius. As for the internal issues in Brazil, I told my friend that Elon doesn’t give a crap about it, those issues are for the people in Brazil to solve.
[+] [-] bpodgursky|1 year ago|reply
China made it clear that boycotting a country doesn't accomplish anything. Nobody supporting Elon on speech is upset that he bluffed and lost... that's life.