[someluccc]

A) Do you pay them? - No: then yes it is free

“But my data” Have your ever sold your data? Would the value you could ever possibly receive for your data ever equate to the value you get from the free services?

Likely No and No.

Is the free ad supported city newspaper free? Yes it is in fact free, just like FM radio is free, and broadcast television is free, and sidewalks next to billboards are free

Someone creating something appealing and giving it away for free in order to make up for it through ads in front of eyeballs does not in any way mean that the free thing isn’t free

[bryant]

> Have your ever sold your data?

My data has been sold, yes. By me, no, because I don't have the means. But by others and especially by nefarious actors, absolutely.

So indeed, it's not free. Just because data isn't liquid at the individual level doesn't mean it has no value.

[braabe]

All of these examples are probably in part or fully paid for with some sort of taxes. So it is less "no payments" and more "deferred payments".

I would argue that the question of "Is it free?" should not be restricted to monetary payments. If I offer you dinner for an hour of yardwork - are you receiving the food for free? If I would offer you that same dinner in exchange for letting me watch you use your computer for a while, is it free?

I think ads do incur a cost on you: In usability of a service, in your attention span / desensitization and your ability to focus, in the money you would not have spent were it not for ads.

Googles services are free in the sense, that you don't spend cold hard cash on them, but I would still argue, that you pay for them. That 2 Trillion Dollar valuation has to come from somewhere... :(

[someluccc]

#1. Would I have used the computer at the same time/place/duration? Then yes it is free. It literally cost me nothing.

#2. You can pay? Also is the argument somehow that the free thing isn’t free because the ad in it makes the UX worse?

Also curious to know how many ads exactly do you get while using google workspace? drive? android? maps?

Finally: You can literally use Chrome, Workspace, Drive, Android and Maps without seeing a single ad, without an ad blocker, without EVER using google search, for free.

[lelandbatey]

You're describing the difference between highly diffuse costs (taxes -> sidewalks) and transactional costs (price of a hamburger -> hamburger).

I would like private businesses to offer transactional costs. I do not want businesses leveraging diffuse costs; I'd prefer that only my governments use diffuse costs and that private businesses have limited ability to use diffuse costs. At least with government I get a vote.

[dartos]

> A) Do you pay them? - No: then yes it is free

And here we see the ostrich. When faced with the horrors of reality, sticks its head in the sand. It’s simpler in there.

[someluccc]

If I build a movie theater and give away the tickets knowing that I can make money on ads before a movie that does not mean that 5 minutes of your eyesight is now worth something

[someluccc]

Your data is worthless. Please do tell me how much you could sell your “data” for right now.

[nomat]

if you aren't considering the fact that your data is what enabled these companies to become such massive giants in the first place, you may be living outside of the EU.