With educational pricing this thing starts as $500, and at 16GB of RAM (finally) I think this easily beats any sort of desktop PC you can buy at that price (let's exclude custom builds, they're not the same market).
I think this just became the go-to recommendation I'll give to anybody wanting an entry-level desktop computer of any kind. In fact I might buy one for my parents right now to replace the old mac mini they have. I really can't think of any reasonable competition for it at that price.
One issue to watch out for: Sub-4K res monitors look surprisingly bad on newer versions of macOS with Apple Silicon Macs. And no, it's not simply a matter of non-Retina obviously not looking as nice as Retina monitors - something like a 1440p monitor will look much worse on macOS than it would on Windows or Linux. This is partly caused by a lack of subpixel rendering for text on macOS, but it doesn't affect just text, with app icon graphics and such seemingly optimized for High-DPI resolutions only and thus looking awful too.
You commonly see people using 3rd party apps such as BetterDisplay to partially work around this problem by tricking the system to treat 1440p displays as 5K displays and then downscale, but it doesn't solve this completely.
So yes, the price for the machine is fantastic, but you may want to budget for a basic 4K display as well.
There's still good deals in mini PC land. Yes, the M4 is faster but there's loads of mini PCs with decent CPUs, 32GB RAM and a 1TB of SSD storage for under $600. I think for a lot of people for basic usage they'll get more value out of the larger and upgradable SSDs than the faster CPU.
> I think this easily beats any sort of desktop PC you can buy at that price (let's exclude custom builds, they're not the same market).
This is squarely in the NUC/SFF/1l-pc territory, and there is plenty of competition here from Beelink and Minisforum.
I just found the Beelink SER7 going for $509, and it has an 8-core/16-thread Ryzen 7 CPU, 32GB DDR4. The 8845 in the beelink is very competitive[1] with M4 (beaten, but not "easily"), and also supports memory upgrades of up to 256GB.
IMHO it's not as NUC style mini PCs with x86-64 CPUs from AMD and intel are really cheap and the 256Gb storage is way too small making the "real" price $200 higher for any sort of moderate usage.
> I think this easily beats any sort of desktop PC you can buy at that price
Not really. Do a quick googling for cheap miniPCs from brands such as minisforum or Beelink. Years ago they were selling Ryzen5 and Intel i5 with 16BG of RAM for around $300. No "educational software" bullshit either, just straight from Amazon to anyone who bothered to click on a button.
16GB base RAM across the board, following the iMac. AI is certainly good for pushing up the baseline RAM that manufacturers can get away with shipping if nothing else.
This is good news for me because I usually buy the base machine and accept its performance as a constraint on what I'm doing. I'm not sure it is all about AI though, Apple has been getting a lot of criticism for selling machines with just 8GB of RAM.
The RAM is expandable as well… however I am curious how well the extra RAM performs. Part of the M-series performance gain is from having the RAM dies very close to the processor.
I learned yesterday that all M-chip Macs with enough RAM are getting Apple Intelligence?
This basically proves that Apple shot themselves in the foot for AI on mobile by artificially restricting RAM for so long! Heck, even the Neural Engine has turned out to be basically useless despite all their grandstanding.
So alas, their prior greed has resulted in their most popular consumer iDevices being the least AI compatible devices in their lineup. They could’ve leapfrogged every other manufacturer with the largest AI compatible device userbase.
It's Unified RAM. So that memory is also used for the GPU & Neural Cores (which is for Apple Intelligence).
This is actually why companies moved away from the unified memory arch decades ago.
It'll be interesting to see as AI continues to advance, if Apple is forced to depart from their unified memory architecture due to growing GPU memory needs.
What a great little computer at a very reasonable price. A few interesting things with this announcement:
1. Interesting that they did not have this as part of an event. I think this either means they do not have much else to share around the Mac right now or the opposite, there just won't be room to talk about the iMac or Mac Mini. I am leaning towards the former as a I suspect the other computers in their lineup will just receive a spec bump soon.
2. On the product page (https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/) Apple highlights a number of third party accessories. Notably the PS5 controller and several keyboards and mice from different manufacturers. This seems small, but it would have been almost blasphemy under the jobs era.
3. This is quite the little powerhouse. Honestly it is so good it eliminates the need for most people to even consider the Mac Studio.
My M2 Mac Mini that I got for $499 is my favorite gaming computer I've had in a long time. Runs many games like WoW, Dota, League of Legends, etc great. Anything that it doesn't run due to MacOS I use GeForce Now over ethernet. And this was with 8gb unified memory, now with 16gb it'll be even better value.
Very excited to see how the GPU has improved in the M4, especially the Pro model.
> Mac mini is made with over 50 percent recycled content overall, including 100 percent recycled aluminum in the enclosure, 100 percent recycled gold plating in all Apple-designed printed circuit boards, and 100 percent recycled rare earth elements in all magnets. The electricity used to manufacture Mac mini is sourced from 100 percent renewable electricity. And, to address 100 percent of the electricity customers use to power Mac mini, Apple has invested in clean energy projects around the world. Apple has also prioritized lower-carbon modes of shipping, like ocean freight, to further reduce emissions from transportation. Together, these actions have reduced the carbon footprint of Mac mini by over 80 percent.
I’m inclined to trust Apple with this information but the skeptical side of me is questioning, how can we fact check this data? If it’s true it is very cool.
As far as I am aware, there isn't a single competitor from big brand manufacture at $599 price point regardless of size. M4, 16GB RAM, Thunderbolt 4. The SSD is the main failing point but with TB4 you can easily get an external SSD. You can also get 10Gbps for extra $100. With EDU or Staff pricing this thing stars at $499. Which is practically a steal.
I am thinking it may be better for cooperate to buy this and run Windows on VM than buying a PC.
Considering iPad and iPhone has been replacing 99% of my workflow outside of office I am thinking if my next computer could be a mini rather than a Laptop.
Apart from the huge price jump from M4 to M4 Pro, I really like this product line-up.
Last time I bought a Mac Mini was before the 2018 model got introduced, and I almost took it back in to get it exchanged (I was within 30 days of purchase when the 2018 model dropped), but it's been plugging away doing everything I have asked of it for 6 years, and it's still going strong. All the upgrades since have left me a little cool, but this genuinely looks like a contender for an upgrade. Only thing stopping me from getting the credit card ready is waiting to see what the M4 MacBook Air - which is inevitably going to be announced in the next 72 hours - looks like in comparison.
M4 pro comes with Thunderbolt 5, which means one cable to run 2x 2160p120. And in case of macbooks equipped with TB5, one cable to do 2x high res, high refresh displays + power + plenty of bandwdith for data accessories. Omnomnom.
It would appear the air intake is on the bottom like the Mac Studio.
As someone who lives in a very dusty 150 year old house, My Mac Studio does not appreciate the air input being directly on the desk. It collects all the dust that lands anywhere near it.
I have a large levoit air filter running 24/7 in my office and still end up with this[1] regularly. I wish I could at least reasonably take the thing apart to clean it out.
I wish they would add small UPS inside (like super-capacitor or something like that) there to provide way for forced sleep when power is cut off. It's a neat small device which must be accompanied by huge bulky UPS for reliable operation.
If someone didn't know, macOS ignores fsync, so without UPS your data is not safe. Not an issue for laptops, obviously, but issue for battery-less devices.
Apple really is the kind of cherry picking comparisons. They seem to compare the new Mini with the M1 Mini, the Core i7 Mini, and the M2 Mini, all in different categories, whenever it benefits them.
I think I’d miss my USB-A ports if I switched my Mac Studio for this. Apart from that, it looks pretty good. Not really sure if it’s worth saving a couple of hundred when you spec it up to par with an M4 Max Mac Studio when that comes out though. It’s the same price as the base M2 Max Mac Studio when you upgrade the memory and SoC.
How much faster is the M4 vs the M2 for Swift development?
I’d probably get 32GB. I started buying 16GB Macs in 2013. The extra RAM will keep any Mac useful for a few extra years. In fact, my 2013 Intel MB Pro would be still be great if I could upgrade the OS
I love its form factor, less so the price difference between the M4 and M4 Pro models ($800 USD, presumably so it doesn’t cannibalize the Studio). It looks small, friendly, and inviting to the user, despite not breaking its industrial aesthetic.
Honestly kind of want one as a desktop, even though my M1 Pro MBP is still insanely powerful for my needs.
I feel the same way. I have a really nice MBP and I cannot justify a dedicated desktop when a single thunderbolt cable to my laptop does the job just fine, but I do love the value and design. Maybe I'll pick one up for the kids.
To me, it really is just an aesthetic thing. What purpose does this actually serve? It's small, but not portable. If it's going under my desk or on a rack never to be moved or looked at, why does it need to be cute?
They may have higher ambitions for this generation! In the presentation (roughly at the 10-minute mark), they show off the standard target demographics and setups for creative work, then complementing that with some more enterprise-flirty stuff about making workers more productive and lowering office energy usage, only to finish off with this:
"And with the industry-leading reliability of macOS, healthcare systems can count on mini when providing critical care."
[+] [-] e63f67dd-065b|1 year ago|reply
I think this just became the go-to recommendation I'll give to anybody wanting an entry-level desktop computer of any kind. In fact I might buy one for my parents right now to replace the old mac mini they have. I really can't think of any reasonable competition for it at that price.
[+] [-] architect64|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] goosedragons|1 year ago|reply
https://www.amazon.com/BOSGAME-5700U-Displays-Computers-Emul... https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-SER5-Desktop-Computer-Graphic...
[+] [-] sangnoir|1 year ago|reply
This is squarely in the NUC/SFF/1l-pc territory, and there is plenty of competition here from Beelink and Minisforum.
I just found the Beelink SER7 going for $509, and it has an 8-core/16-thread Ryzen 7 CPU, 32GB DDR4. The 8845 in the beelink is very competitive[1] with M4 (beaten, but not "easily"), and also supports memory upgrades of up to 256GB.
1. https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m4-vs-amd-ryzen-...
[+] [-] huijzer|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] brundolf|1 year ago|reply
These days the only reasons I see to get a desktop are
1. You need some combination of power/thermals or expandability
2. Kiosks, public computers, etc
3. Cost? Maybe?
For pretty much any regular person in my life who's open to a mac, I'd point them towards a MacBook Air
[+] [-] tharos47|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] zackymacky|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] timeon|1 year ago|reply
> go-to recommendation I'll give to anybody wanting an entry-level desktop
Can anybody get it with educational pricing?
[+] [-] chipdart|1 year ago|reply
Not really. Do a quick googling for cheap miniPCs from brands such as minisforum or Beelink. Years ago they were selling Ryzen5 and Intel i5 with 16BG of RAM for around $300. No "educational software" bullshit either, just straight from Amazon to anyone who bothered to click on a button.
[+] [-] kwanbix|1 year ago|reply
But I wouldn't recommend it to people who are not used to it.
I tried to recommend Linux, with XFCE setup as basically windows, and people complain. Same for ChromeOS.
[+] [-] ChumpGPT|1 year ago|reply
Perhaps you should check out some Beelink and GMKTec Mini PC Systems.
[+] [-] heraldgeezer|1 year ago|reply
For half that price I can get a used Dell/HP/Lenovo mico/tiny PC with a full i7 CPU, 16GB RAM, 256SSD.
Still good to see. Great for an office PC or HTPC.
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[+] [-] yunohn|1 year ago|reply
This basically proves that Apple shot themselves in the foot for AI on mobile by artificially restricting RAM for so long! Heck, even the Neural Engine has turned out to be basically useless despite all their grandstanding.
So alas, their prior greed has resulted in their most popular consumer iDevices being the least AI compatible devices in their lineup. They could’ve leapfrogged every other manufacturer with the largest AI compatible device userbase.
[+] [-] alberth|1 year ago|reply
It's Unified RAM. So that memory is also used for the GPU & Neural Cores (which is for Apple Intelligence).
This is actually why companies moved away from the unified memory arch decades ago.
It'll be interesting to see as AI continues to advance, if Apple is forced to depart from their unified memory architecture due to growing GPU memory needs.
[+] [-] etempleton|1 year ago|reply
1. Interesting that they did not have this as part of an event. I think this either means they do not have much else to share around the Mac right now or the opposite, there just won't be room to talk about the iMac or Mac Mini. I am leaning towards the former as a I suspect the other computers in their lineup will just receive a spec bump soon.
2. On the product page (https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/) Apple highlights a number of third party accessories. Notably the PS5 controller and several keyboards and mice from different manufacturers. This seems small, but it would have been almost blasphemy under the jobs era.
3. This is quite the little powerhouse. Honestly it is so good it eliminates the need for most people to even consider the Mac Studio.
[+] [-] leetharris|1 year ago|reply
My M2 Mac Mini that I got for $499 is my favorite gaming computer I've had in a long time. Runs many games like WoW, Dota, League of Legends, etc great. Anything that it doesn't run due to MacOS I use GeForce Now over ethernet. And this was with 8gb unified memory, now with 16gb it'll be even better value.
Very excited to see how the GPU has improved in the M4, especially the Pro model.
[+] [-] alberth|1 year ago|reply
Updated with known P and E amounts.
Thanks HN for posting below.
https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/specs/
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/10/apples-new-mac-mini-i...
[+] [-] animal_spirits|1 year ago|reply
I’m inclined to trust Apple with this information but the skeptical side of me is questioning, how can we fact check this data? If it’s true it is very cool.
[+] [-] ksec|1 year ago|reply
I am thinking it may be better for cooperate to buy this and run Windows on VM than buying a PC.
Considering iPad and iPhone has been replacing 99% of my workflow outside of office I am thinking if my next computer could be a mini rather than a Laptop.
[+] [-] PaulRobinson|1 year ago|reply
Last time I bought a Mac Mini was before the 2018 model got introduced, and I almost took it back in to get it exchanged (I was within 30 days of purchase when the 2018 model dropped), but it's been plugging away doing everything I have asked of it for 6 years, and it's still going strong. All the upgrades since have left me a little cool, but this genuinely looks like a contender for an upgrade. Only thing stopping me from getting the credit card ready is waiting to see what the M4 MacBook Air - which is inevitably going to be announced in the next 72 hours - looks like in comparison.
[+] [-] kissiel|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] fckgw|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] donatj|1 year ago|reply
As someone who lives in a very dusty 150 year old house, My Mac Studio does not appreciate the air input being directly on the desk. It collects all the dust that lands anywhere near it.
I have a large levoit air filter running 24/7 in my office and still end up with this[1] regularly. I wish I could at least reasonably take the thing apart to clean it out.
1. https://imgur.com/a/GSubONa
[+] [-] vbezhenar|1 year ago|reply
If someone didn't know, macOS ignores fsync, so without UPS your data is not safe. Not an issue for laptops, obviously, but issue for battery-less devices.
[+] [-] laweijfmvo|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] nordsieck|1 year ago|reply
* Kept HDMI
* New, much smaller form factor
* Front facing USB-C
* Base model has 16 gb of ram
[+] [-] Hamuko|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] melling|1 year ago|reply
I’d probably get 32GB. I started buying 16GB Macs in 2013. The extra RAM will keep any Mac useful for a few extra years. In fact, my 2013 Intel MB Pro would be still be great if I could upgrade the OS
[+] [-] stego-tech|1 year ago|reply
Honestly kind of want one as a desktop, even though my M1 Pro MBP is still insanely powerful for my needs.
[+] [-] jhickok|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] tootie|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] non-nil|1 year ago|reply
"And with the industry-leading reliability of macOS, healthcare systems can count on mini when providing critical care."
A bit out of character, and also – what?!
[+] [-] Flux159|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] whatever1|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] _han|1 year ago|reply
Hats off! I didn't expect the Mac to be next in line for the carbon neutral goals. But they did it!
[+] [-] terramex|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] ErneX|1 year ago|reply