My point is that if Excel spreadsheets can be audited, practically speaking, why are these major errors going unnoticed all the time?
Edit: My contention is that spreadsheets are in fact, very opaque, and it is incredibly difficult to check that every part of a spreadsheet is actually doing what its users think it is supposed to be doing. Specifically, I posit that it is harder to check a spreadsheet, than it is to check a "traditional" program in a normal programming language, which works on pure data.
> Specifically, I posit that it is harder to check a spreadsheet, than it is to check a "traditional" program in a normal programming language, which works on pure data.
I don't think I can agree with this. The average codebase I see is pretty terrible readability-wise. Nasty levels of function nesting, tons of variation of behavior based on arguments passed into functions, etc. I assume the average Excel spreadsheet is also pretty nasty, but it has the advantage of having a debugger "built in" vs looking at the code generally without actually seeing the data flowing through it (e.g. who runs every code review they do through a debugger?).
I also think this ignores that a "traditional" program replacing Excel would still need to get data from somewhere, which commonly implies a SQL database or a data warehouse that speaks SQL these days, and complex SQL is itself NASTY to verify/fully grok through reading alone.
Because not all spreadsheets are audited? Just because they can doesn't mean they are. Also a financial audit is very different in what it is looking for, compared to a cyber security audit, for instance. They are looking to prove the accounts show a true and fair view of the company, not 'are your formulas perfect'. They are more likely to copy out your raw data and run their own analysis.
Answering your edit, not all spreadsheets are opaque either. We design ours to be audited.
Auditors don’t show up to critique your formulas. They are looking at business processes, which means usually the data that flows between things. If it gets to the point where they are digging that deep, they have a finding and are trying to assess the severity.
Software, including major business systems are often fucked up. There are major companies using RPA software to robotically use excel to correct some fubar in Oracle financials that wont get fixed for a few years.
The beauty of excel is that the business speaks it.
Karellen|1 year ago
Edit: My contention is that spreadsheets are in fact, very opaque, and it is incredibly difficult to check that every part of a spreadsheet is actually doing what its users think it is supposed to be doing. Specifically, I posit that it is harder to check a spreadsheet, than it is to check a "traditional" program in a normal programming language, which works on pure data.
majormajor|1 year ago
I don't think I can agree with this. The average codebase I see is pretty terrible readability-wise. Nasty levels of function nesting, tons of variation of behavior based on arguments passed into functions, etc. I assume the average Excel spreadsheet is also pretty nasty, but it has the advantage of having a debugger "built in" vs looking at the code generally without actually seeing the data flowing through it (e.g. who runs every code review they do through a debugger?).
I also think this ignores that a "traditional" program replacing Excel would still need to get data from somewhere, which commonly implies a SQL database or a data warehouse that speaks SQL these days, and complex SQL is itself NASTY to verify/fully grok through reading alone.
jimnotgym|1 year ago
Answering your edit, not all spreadsheets are opaque either. We design ours to be audited.
Spooky23|1 year ago
Auditors don’t show up to critique your formulas. They are looking at business processes, which means usually the data that flows between things. If it gets to the point where they are digging that deep, they have a finding and are trying to assess the severity.
Software, including major business systems are often fucked up. There are major companies using RPA software to robotically use excel to correct some fubar in Oracle financials that wont get fixed for a few years.
The beauty of excel is that the business speaks it.
unknown|1 year ago
[deleted]
jdougan|1 year ago