Rule of thumb. If ever the government claims state secrets, they are playing their, "We did something wrong, and would like to get out of jail free" card.
I know of a number of cases where state secrets was claimed, then later it was proven that there was no actual state secret proven. (Including the very first case where state secrets were used as a defense in a court room.) I know of no cases where state secrets were claimed, and then there turned out to be an actual state secret at issue.
This is such a powerful and often-(ab)used argument that it genuinely horrifies me. It seems these days just about anything the U.S. government does can be justified under a binding legal ruling of "top secret, we can't hear this in our courts. But trust us, it's cool."
Call me paranoid, but this is the reason I'm frightened of setting foot on U.S. soil.
I know of no cases where state secrets were claimed, and then there turned out to be an actual state secret at issue.
Part of the reason for this is that the US, unlike the UK, does not have state secrets law, so there is no actual legal definition of a state secret in the US. It's just a couple of words lawyers mumble in hopes that a judge will defer to their desires not to confront some fact.
I wish the EFF good luck with this case. They are certainly going to need it! The change in US government attitudes regarding spying on its own citizens (at least publicly) during the last 10 years is chilling to say the least.
I sincerely commend the EFF for taking a stand to slow down the descent along the slippery slope of a 24x7x365 survelied society.
At this point however, it is probably a safe assumption:
No matter what the NSA/NRO/CIA/DOJ or anyone else says, the US gov. in one form or another is monitoring every single Phone call, E-mail, Chat, Skype and any other form of electronic communication into and out of the USA. Also the location data that your cell phone leaks pretty much makes physical surveillance superfluous.
The Technology has been too cheaply available and the temptation too great for the truth to be anything else.
What the EFF should also be doing is launching a campaign to make end-to-end encryption the default everywhere. Every e-mail you write /Chat session/Skype session should be encrypted in transport for every one. Make the cost of doing this mass-surveillance so expensive that the Govt is forced to prioritize on the actual targets.
If they manage to get the NSA off the backbones and repeal PATRIOT so the feds can't review my entire digital life in realtime with no warrant, I will move back to the USA.
(But of course not NYC where you are subject to illegal search just riding the subway.)
If you're still talking to people in USA, especially through Skype, your conversations are probably already monitored [1]. I think NSA already has a (secret, illegal) mandate to monitor all American communications with any foreigners.
If they think this is necessary, then at the very least the legislative branch of government should sign this into law - just doing it is not how a democratic government is supposed to work.
Actually it's exactly how "democracy" is supposed to work - giving the masses the illusion of control over the autonomous government. If the public makes a stink, escalate to getting the approval of congress. If the public still complains, fall back on the rules and tell them they need to vote in different "representatives". Most likely somewhere during this multi-year process, the momentum of the outrage is lost and the issue goes away. And in the rare case that the public won't let go of a particular issue, multiple new corruptions have sprung up in the meantime.
[+] [-] btilly|13 years ago|reply
I know of a number of cases where state secrets was claimed, then later it was proven that there was no actual state secret proven. (Including the very first case where state secrets were used as a defense in a court room.) I know of no cases where state secrets were claimed, and then there turned out to be an actual state secret at issue.
[+] [-] Animus7|13 years ago|reply
Call me paranoid, but this is the reason I'm frightened of setting foot on U.S. soil.
[+] [-] mtgx|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rhizome|13 years ago|reply
Part of the reason for this is that the US, unlike the UK, does not have state secrets law, so there is no actual legal definition of a state secret in the US. It's just a couple of words lawyers mumble in hopes that a judge will defer to their desires not to confront some fact.
[+] [-] ajtaylor|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] majke|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] suprgeek|13 years ago|reply
At this point however, it is probably a safe assumption: No matter what the NSA/NRO/CIA/DOJ or anyone else says, the US gov. in one form or another is monitoring every single Phone call, E-mail, Chat, Skype and any other form of electronic communication into and out of the USA. Also the location data that your cell phone leaks pretty much makes physical surveillance superfluous.
The Technology has been too cheaply available and the temptation too great for the truth to be anything else.
What the EFF should also be doing is launching a campaign to make end-to-end encryption the default everywhere. Every e-mail you write /Chat session/Skype session should be encrypted in transport for every one. Make the cost of doing this mass-surveillance so expensive that the Govt is forced to prioritize on the actual targets.
[+] [-] ljlolel|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sneak|13 years ago|reply
(But of course not NYC where you are subject to illegal search just riding the subway.)
I ain't holdin' my breath. :(
[+] [-] mtgx|13 years ago|reply
[1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/12/nsa_offers_billions_...
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218002/Microsoft_see...
[+] [-] cududa|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codehotter|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mindslight|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thechut|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blackaspen|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] losethos|13 years ago|reply
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