Oracle files notice of appearance for JavaScript trademark [pdf]

[m463]

Maybe we could change the filetype from .js to .bho

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc...

[benatkin]

<script type="module"> doesn't have "javascript" or "js" in it, fortunately. So your script can just be ECMAScript®.

[galaxyLogic]

Call it WebScript. It has nothing to do with Java anyway.

[Daneel_]

This quote makes me giggle:

One does not seriously attack the expertise of a scientist using the undefined phrase 'butt-head'."

[philwelch]

There’s another part of this story that Wikipedia leaves out

The other two original Power Mac models had the code names “Piltdown Man” and “Cold Fusion”—not exactly the sort of thing someone like Sagan would want to be implicitly associated with.

[metadat]

That'd require giving Oracle unwarranted attention.

The Sagan bit was funny because Apple engineers transitioned from loving him to resenting him :)

[diggan]

Seems .law (lawyers are wimps) is more fitting

[lern_too_spel]

It already has a name that describes its developer experience better than JavaScript. The extension should match. .es for EczemaScript.

[thrdbndndn]

I just learned about this case today.

Based purely on the Wikipedia description, Sagan's request seems reasonable, from a moral perspective at least. I have no idea why Apple (or its engineers) would be so butthurt about it.

[AceJohnny2]

Context: "Dear Oracle, Please Release the JavaScript Trademark" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32709870

[diogocp]

The real context is that Deno recently filed a petition to cancel the trademark: https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=92086835

[AceJohnny2]

IP lawyers in the comments, what does this mean? It just says "NOTICE OF APPERANCE (sic) OF COUNSEL".

Is it just a bureaucratic step where Oracle says "we're not ignoring this"?

[cxr]

I'm not a trial attorney, but I've done more than my share of dealing with my own civil suits, and your guess is pretty much bang-on.

The rules of civil procedure generally require that the defendant in a suit file a response within a prescribed timeline, even if the response just amounts to saying, "yeah, we're here". That's what the "as required pursuant to 37 CFR §2.119 and TRADEMARK TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD MANUAL OF PROCEDURE §113.04" part is about. I'm not familiar with the specifics about federal procedure for trademark suits, and I'm not going to go look, but if you chase those references down, you're almost sure to find something like this. In some jurisdictions, failure to enter an appearance is reason enough for the other party to request a hearing to be granted default judgment, and for the court to set a date for the hearing, hear the request, and then grant it unless the defendant had a good reason for not filing a timely response.

(The other comments aren't strictly wrong, but mere information about who a given party's lawyers are is generally communicated through notices for designation of counsel.)

[kotaKat]

Basically saying "Hi, we're the lawyers for Oracle, and we've told the lawyers at Deno that we'll be in touch."

[Macha]

Not a lawyer, but the main purpose of this document is to tell the judge who Oracle's lawyers are for this case.

[DannyBee]

IP lawyer here - yes, this is just a bureaucratic step. In practice, even if they chose to later do nothing, they would still file a notice of appearance.

It would be silly not to, since in this case (before the TTAB) it would lead to a default judgement that would be very hard to get out of.

Even if you later choose to release the trademark, you'd still want to see all the court documents, etc.

[thayne]

I'm really curious about Oracle's motivation for fighting this. What value do they see in continuing to hold a trademark they aren't really using, and no one associates with them anyway?

[jasonjayr]

> Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphising Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn, you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' -- lawnmower doesn't give a shit about you, lawnmower can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmower. Don't fall into that trap about Oracle. — Brian Cantrill

[toyg]

You're looking at it wrong: why ever renounce anything that is already yours?

Oracle should be assumed to always take the greediest and most antisocial position in any legal or economic matter.

[genter]

Do you ask a lawnmower why it chewed your hand off after sticking it in there?

[ralph84]

It’s their asset. It came with their $7.4 billion acquisition of Sun. I know it’s popular to hate on Oracle, and it’s deserved in many cases, but any company in this situation would defend their IP. Obviously it has value or somebody wouldn’t be trying to cancel it.

[swyx]

oracle is a law firm that happens to sell a database

[wombatpm]

One Rich Ass Called Larry Ellison

[bni]

First rule of business: Don't give away anything for free

[neom]

Big generally good full service law firm (200+ partners) VS quite small but highly specialized law firm (3 partners). https://www.hollandhart.com/ncdavis for Oracle, https://www.gerbenlaw.com/about/eric-perrott for Deno.

Interesting indeed.

[bhouston]

If Deno loses, do they have to pay Oracle's super expensive lawyer fees? I worry that the fees are probably ridiculously high.

[kopecs]

In America each party typically bears their own costs.

[mikeyouse]

Looks like not typically unless the case is exceptional based on my reading of: https://www.tuckerellis.com/webfiles/FTD-1908-Lauridsen-Broo...

[InMice]

They didn't catch their misspelling of "appearance" on page 2 of this filing? It's only 2 pages long and they missed this, really?

[DannyBee]

This appears to be somebody's template that has this misspelling and lots of people have used.

I can easily find a bunch of nearly identically worried ones.

See, e.g, https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/ttabvue-91291646-OPP-4.pdf

[alberth]

This seems like Deno poked the bear, and now the bear feels forced to defend itself.

[benatkin]

More likely they have everything to gain and nothing to lose. They can do it in their sleep, as far as those managing business strategy at Oracle go. The legal department will handle the legal stuff and the PR department will the PR stuff if needed (unlikely).

[jonathanhefner]

JavaScript is dead. Long live YavaScript.

[dboreham]

JS, ECMAScript.

[j16sdiz]

This is a much better url: https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=92086835

In Claim 2, Deno shows Oracle basically just capture nodejs website and calms this trademark is still in use. How crazy this is.

[NotYourLawyer]

No surprise here. If someone files to cancel your trademark and you want to fight it, you file an appearance.

[thayne]

The surprise (kind of) is that Oracle wants to fight it.

[DannyBee]

You would file an appearance anyway, because who wants a default judgement?

[jahewson]

TypeScript solves this.

[tylerchilds]

this is my favorite take.

“oracle’s trademark sucks, long live microsoft’s trademark”

[peutetre]

WebAssembly solves it better.

[voxelghost]

I mean, its just about the trademark. ECMAScript solves this.

[Havoc]

Clsssic oracle

[pc86]

Classic Oracle, filing some bureaucratic paperwork letting the court know they have representation in this case?

[cr125rider]

It is wild how far Oracle has fallen. All the way down to bureaucratic patent trolls. Sad.

[bni]

It was called LiveScript at first. It's a better name anyway why not use it?

[theendisney]

I thought Java was a country.

[dboreham]

Oracle re-invents the PNG.

[chris_wot]

Yeah, good luck. That trademark was diluted some time ago.