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zadler | 1 year ago

First comment of any bitcoin thread on HN is always something like this, generally negative and a bit grumpy.

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mppm|1 year ago

But do you actually disagree? Has the Crypto Revolution to date produced anything other than financial speculation and a slight warming of the Earth's surface?

zadler|1 year ago

Sure. Millions of people in the third world use crypto for payments. There's also Polymarket, very much recognized within the mainstream. And generally, crypto will continue to spawn new digital infrastructures in a sovereign space.

kreetx|1 year ago

In addition to speculation, with longer time horizon people anywhere in the world can retain the value of what they earn by buying bitcoin with it. Also, mining it can make otherwise not cost-effective power plants cost-effective by buying the excess energy.

throw0101d|1 year ago

> First comment of any bitcoin thread on HN is always something like this, generally negative and a bit grumpy.

And not entirely wrong.

Bitcoin is now just a commodity play: it doesn't have to be rational to make money. Humans assign "value" to all sort of arbitrary things:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones

api|1 year ago

HN is full of engineers, founders, etc. who kind of resent that there’s a large class of people who got rich doing nothing and creating no value.

I get it but I’d say if you’re mad about Bitcoiners you should be a lot more angry about much of the financial industry and property speculators, two other huge groups that get rich without creating much value (or even by creating negative value).

There's a lot of value-free getting rich lately. People call it "late stage capitalism," but that frames capitalism as the villain when in fact it's a symptom of capitalism having created so much wealth we don't know what to do with it. The problem is that we're allocating it in incredibly dysfunctional ridiculous ways. I think what we're seeing is the symptoms of an early-stage post-scarcity society in denial.

The dysfunction arises from our clinging to scarcity-era puritanical ideas that only those who do a lot of work or do miraculous things "deserve" wealth. So we create all kinds of elaborate games and then convince ourselves that the winners of those games are somehow superhuman or superior in some Calvinist sense when they really just won a video game.

In a post-scarcity society baseline levels of wealth become like oxygen in the atmosphere. You don't "deserve" it. It's just there.

We are not quite post-scarcity yet, but we're close enough that craziness like $100k Bitcoin is possible. A few more key innovations will do it. Another order of magnitude drop in solar/battery prices and/or successful demonstration of a net-positive fusion power plant will do it. Embodied AIs that can do factory jobs will get us pretty far too, making the cost of manufactured goods almost equal to the cost of raw material inputs and energy inputs.

zadler|1 year ago

Believing that misallocation of capital means that we are living in a post scarcity society is a very techno optimist way of looking at things.

HN is unbelievably apolitical, apart from it's baseline tendency towards the left and whatever silicon valley demands people believe.

If you were anywhere near a post scarcity society (applies to USA) you wouldn't be hurtling towards national sovereign debt default at a rate of knots, and you wouldn't have the most expensive healthcare in the world.

As it happens, what appears to be a "post scarcity society" is just pathological misallocation of capital due to a political failure (that shaln't be spoken of here) that has the entire west circling the bowl at the moment.

ozgrakkurt|1 year ago

Capitalism isn’t generating so much wealth ifaik, life standard of average working person is constantly going down since 1970s

bsenftner|1 year ago

As person with both a finance and economics degrees, bitcoin is a successful fraud. I can list out how they use bitcoin private definitions for standard financial terms, how they do not disclose those differences in conversations with financial professionals using the standard terms and their definitions, and the bitcoin community itself is composed of people that expect someone else did the homework to validate this, but no one did. I did, it's not there. Bitcoin is a fraud designed to trap smart people that trust other smart people, who do not do their homework.

fer|1 year ago

Just for the last 5-10 years. Before, BTC was cool.

Gigachad|1 year ago

Because 10+ years ago it was being used as a cool currency you could generate with your desktop GPU and buy steam games with.

Now there doesn’t seem to be any use case other than hoping it goes up higher, and enabling crime.

ohashi|1 year ago

Because there was naive optimism about it as a technology?