Not just US albeit about US we have interesting data.
I've read that the average american adult went from spending 11 hours per week with friends and family few decades ago to 4+ in 2010s, and sub 3 after covid.
Loneliness is the big sickness of our modern IT times.
"If I told you, 'I went into my backyard, I made this pill. It's amazing. It's free. If you take it, it'll actually improve your health, make you feel better, improve your performance at work, improve your grades, boost your immunity,' you'd be like, 'Sign me up. I'll take that tomorrow.'" It turns out that's what social connection is. Just a little connection can go a long way in keeping us healthy.
Free in terms of monetary costs but not free in terms of absolute costs for example time and emotional depletion.
For some people they see social connections as more risks that they can possibly lose something and be hurt if things don't work out or they are rejected.
And in general social connections require some type of mutual benefit so it is necessary to "give" as you "get".
Then another layer are that social connections in general need a reason. Is it a club, hobby, job, etc. which takes time and energy.
These "costs" are not universal and vary from person to person.
All these things can be overcome, but it is also important to look at the other side because the reason that people prefer just buying a pill to fix their problems is that the above mentioned costs for them are greater than the price of alternatives like medication, social media, gaming, etc.
Always funny to see the kind of prestige the Surgeon General has in the US, and the weight that statements like this carry (like the one on smoking, too). Here in NL I can't think of anyone in a similar position. (I'm not knocking it at all, to be clear)
Most people probably know the Surgeon General as that guy who always slaps his warning message that nobody reads on beer bottles, cigarette packs, etc.
That's a term that I use, for the type of social structure that most societies have[0]. Bit different from what he's written.
It's not just a problem for young folks. Older folks are having huge problems with loneliness.
I won't speak to how it affects our physical well-being, but it sure does affect our mental well-being, and our mental health can definitely inform our physical health.
I'm always an advocate of engaging in volunteer or nonprofit work. It definitely has its issues, but does wonders for loneliness.
Most of the folks that hang out here, have extremely valuable skills, that could do wonders for NPOs.
I'm in my sixties and can compare my life in seventies with the life of my kids (in late twenties now) and the life of kids nowadays. The obvious difference is that people nowadays don't have to interact with too many different people. They can totally ignore most of the world without any consequences, but this wasn't the case when I grew up. I had the myriad of relatives, cousins etc you had to interact with. In lot of cases this was awkward for me as introverted nerd, but I learned a lot from it. Without this need and practice I can totally see myself being lonely single in later life, not as father of three, grandfather of two, member of several communities etc I am now.
Our (the states) reliance on car central culture is killing us in more ways than one.
I grew up in the suburbs and you could easily go a week without substantially interacting with people.
Jump in your metal capsule, drive 7 mins to Walmart, walk quietly across the huge parking lot, get your item and return home.
Contrasted with dense urban city with public transit, you will serendipitously bump into people and be forced to interact more with society, even if it is just exchanging pleasantries.
This is killing ourselves socially, not to mention how much cars cause physical death.
Just sign to a gym. Not the pumping iron ones. Sign up to a martial arts gym, a dance studio, an art school. Anything that is more of a social activity, and that YOU LIKE. If you find a group of people that share the same niche interest that you genuinely have, you make friends. My personal advice to the engineer type of guys, is go to a BJJ gym if you want to practice something that is extremely challenging both physically and intellectually. The number of techniques is virtually infinite, and you can become good by simply memorizing more tech than your average jock. So, to make male friends (but not only that) go to a BJJ gym. If you want to meet girls, go to a dance studio. Both skills will be really valuable in terms of physical and mental health throughout your life, apart from the friends you'll make.
In my case a local makerspace to play board games. I've made a few friends that I hang out with outside the space -- sometimes I host events in my home, sometimes we go out to get dinner or whatever.
Volunteer work. I volunteer with one group (and have been doing this for almost 8 years now). I can't believe how many friends I have just from this one activity.
Neighbors. Just start talking to them. Have them over. We do this for football (NFL) games or just for dinner.
Surprisingly (or maybe not). Kpop concerts. My wife is very into this music scene. She has definitely made friends she keeps in touch with (friends she met at the concert). I went to one and I couldn't believe how many fans went alone and formed their own groups at the concert to watch/dance. And this is for all ages (I saw 80 year olds down to the teenagers). Edit: I should note that the concerts she has been to did not cost an arm and a leg.
> The reason for anxiety and pessimism is because people are feeling more lonely.
Might anxiety cause loneliness? Seems pretty logical.
> More than half the people in America feel lonely, and the numbers are actually the greatest among the young people, young boys and girls. And this not only has implications in mental health, but it also has implications in physical health. It increases the risk for heart disease and premature death. Vivek also mentions that loneliness is a mental health issue.
The issue has come up before: Mightn't bad physical health, and especially bad mental health, cause loneliness?
It's certainly plausible that causation happens in both directions; I expect there's more than zero of that. But which direction is the bigger one? I have no idea. And if someone wants to say this with the authority of the Surgeon General, I want them to bring citations that actually prove causality.
Lets autisticly cut to the chase, this article is 100% about 1 paragraph.
Solution: Social Interaction
What happened about 50 years ago which REDUCED social interaction significantly? There's only 3 answers. All decisions by politicians with a negative consequence to social interaction per year. It will continue to trend worse. Social media, which only got invented recently, has no bearing on this conversation. Sorry, I wont be able to say what these 3 are here. The name of these will only serve to get me labelled *ist. I've got the ism, whatever.
Why is nobody allowed to discuss those 3 answers? Reddit committed suicide is now far behind Linkedin having overtly banned and pushed over 50% of their users off their site. Why is it that these 3 answers are bannable offences, but also not listed in the reddit rules? Well I asked... they dont want to boost these topics by putting them in the rules. So instead you get banned for violating a rule you didnt know was a rule? They unban you like as if they are doing you a favour.
Why is it governments have sunk billions if not trillions into trying to fix this problem... but refuse to look at the 3 answers? Are they willfully blind? Ignorance due to censorship is not an excuse.
You can have quadrillion $ into 'community development' and 'social infrastructure' but you are literally throwing that money into a pit of fire. It hasnt worked for decades... completely insane to keep trying. But taxpayer money grows on trees i guess.
Why do politicians not do the extremely unpopular, stupid to do, yet necessary changes? political suicide sure. In this case, probably assassinated.
Why does it have to become a crisis? Only after its a crisis will people listen to a fix, but we do have a social crisis.
The fundamental reason democracy needs actual free speech and no censorship is because sometimes you gotta say what's unpopular. Sometimes you even need to do it. But when you are in a situation where you even self-censor to avoid theoretical censorship, the discussion never happens.
I'm not just introverted, I am rather extreme ... to the point where I've wondered if I might have schizoid personality disorder (characterized by apathy towards forming close personal relationships).
I don't dislike being around people, I'm no misantrhope, but when I do engage in social activities I'm usually literally bed-ridden for a day or two after. I'm not even exaggerating. It is a level of fatigue that is reminiscent of the symptoms of clinical depression (but it's not depression because the cause and effect is well observed over 40 years of trying to figure myself out). When this happens I have zero motivation, zero energy, zero desire to do anything but sit on my fat unproductive lazy ass and be a complete vegetable and this will last for a day two depending on the intensity of the social interaction (if I go on vacation and disrupt my routine for a couple of weeks, I'm looking at upwards of a week to recover).
Introverts commonly describe the need "re-charge" after social interaction, and that's clearly what this is. It's just dialled up to 11 for me.
And this happens even if I had a great time with people that I really care about. Even date night with my wife will do this to me.
Every time I hear about the loneliness epidemic I wonder how universally applicable this is: to what degree are introverts susceptible to the negative effects of loneliness? To what degree do other introverts feel lonely? And are some people (like me) just wired so differently in the brain that we're "immune" to loneliness.
I mean I've gone months without talking to a single other human being. The data suggests that I should have all sorts of symptoms as a result, including "cabin fever" etc. But I've never experienced that. I certainly don't feel depressed when this happens. If anything I'm more productive and energetic and happy versus when I'm interacting with people regularly. I'm not even sure that I know what loneliness feels like or if I'm capable of experiencing it.
This is very personal and subjective. I'm mostly writing it just to see if other introverts feel the same or differently. If the "epidemic" is an "extrovert's epidemic" or I'm just, for lack of a better term, completely fucked in the head with an actual mental disorder that prevents me from ever feeling the slightest desire to connect with others, even following prolonged periods of isolation.
I've never experienced that impact from interacting with other people, but I have described myself as being "wired to be alone."
If you think about it, it's not that unusual throughout history. Sailors, cowboys, shepherds, ranchers, prospectors, hunters etc., have been jobs done by those who preferred to be by themselves.
I remember watching a documentary about the first Iditarod. After the winner got to the finish line, there was an extravagant meal and cameras and news reporters. But the poor guy was so used to being alone with his dogs that he wasn't able to eat a thing with all those people around.
That's very interesting and I wonder if it is related to your physical fitness? Social interaction and going out does require more from your body and I wonder if this is something you can train for like you train your muscles
Hear me out: shorter work week (4 day week), work life balance, and living where there is more density and public transit to reduce social friction. Humans are social creatures, they must have time and opportunity to be social.
We've done the line go up thing, and it isn't working out great. Maybe we could try something else?
I hope this is sarcasm. I would hypothesize people at the office rarely are the reference group one would enjoy spending time with. Just give people more days off regularly so they would have time to socialize with whom they actually have something to connect them.
epolanski|1 year ago
I've read that the average american adult went from spending 11 hours per week with friends and family few decades ago to 4+ in 2010s, and sub 3 after covid.
Loneliness is the big sickness of our modern IT times.
bubblic|1 year ago
jaybhum|1 year ago
hansonkd|1 year ago
Free in terms of monetary costs but not free in terms of absolute costs for example time and emotional depletion.
For some people they see social connections as more risks that they can possibly lose something and be hurt if things don't work out or they are rejected.
And in general social connections require some type of mutual benefit so it is necessary to "give" as you "get".
Then another layer are that social connections in general need a reason. Is it a club, hobby, job, etc. which takes time and energy.
These "costs" are not universal and vary from person to person.
All these things can be overcome, but it is also important to look at the other side because the reason that people prefer just buying a pill to fix their problems is that the above mentioned costs for them are greater than the price of alternatives like medication, social media, gaming, etc.
drivingmenuts|1 year ago
hccb|1 year ago
[deleted]
bondarchuk|1 year ago
lenerdenator|1 year ago
He's the head of one of the US government's eight uniformed services[0]. Like, in a sense, he's literally a general.
[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Public_Health_Se...
Dalewyn|1 year ago
ChrisMarshallNY|1 year ago
That's a term that I use, for the type of social structure that most societies have[0]. Bit different from what he's written.
It's not just a problem for young folks. Older folks are having huge problems with loneliness.
I won't speak to how it affects our physical well-being, but it sure does affect our mental well-being, and our mental health can definitely inform our physical health.
I'm always an advocate of engaging in volunteer or nonprofit work. It definitely has its issues, but does wonders for loneliness.
Most of the folks that hang out here, have extremely valuable skills, that could do wonders for NPOs.
[0] https://littlegreenviper.com/infrastructure/#social_inf
bubblic|1 year ago
obscurette|1 year ago
exprofmaddy|1 year ago
nop_slide|1 year ago
I grew up in the suburbs and you could easily go a week without substantially interacting with people.
Jump in your metal capsule, drive 7 mins to Walmart, walk quietly across the huge parking lot, get your item and return home.
Contrasted with dense urban city with public transit, you will serendipitously bump into people and be forced to interact more with society, even if it is just exchanging pleasantries.
This is killing ourselves socially, not to mention how much cars cause physical death.
kiba|1 year ago
kikokikokiko|1 year ago
SSLy|1 year ago
dpkirchner|1 year ago
bubblic|1 year ago
exe34|1 year ago
thehoff|1 year ago
Neighbors. Just start talking to them. Have them over. We do this for football (NFL) games or just for dinner.
Surprisingly (or maybe not). Kpop concerts. My wife is very into this music scene. She has definitely made friends she keeps in touch with (friends she met at the concert). I went to one and I couldn't believe how many fans went alone and formed their own groups at the concert to watch/dance. And this is for all ages (I saw 80 year olds down to the teenagers). Edit: I should note that the concerts she has been to did not cost an arm and a leg.
dtquad|1 year ago
binary_slinger|1 year ago
rnd0|1 year ago
ErikAugust|1 year ago
ggu7hgfk8j|1 year ago
sicromoft|1 year ago
yeahwhatever10|1 year ago
bubblic|1 year ago
waterhouse|1 year ago
Might anxiety cause loneliness? Seems pretty logical.
> More than half the people in America feel lonely, and the numbers are actually the greatest among the young people, young boys and girls. And this not only has implications in mental health, but it also has implications in physical health. It increases the risk for heart disease and premature death. Vivek also mentions that loneliness is a mental health issue.
The issue has come up before: Mightn't bad physical health, and especially bad mental health, cause loneliness?
It's certainly plausible that causation happens in both directions; I expect there's more than zero of that. But which direction is the bigger one? I have no idea. And if someone wants to say this with the authority of the Surgeon General, I want them to bring citations that actually prove causality.
incomingpain|1 year ago
Solution: Social Interaction
What happened about 50 years ago which REDUCED social interaction significantly? There's only 3 answers. All decisions by politicians with a negative consequence to social interaction per year. It will continue to trend worse. Social media, which only got invented recently, has no bearing on this conversation. Sorry, I wont be able to say what these 3 are here. The name of these will only serve to get me labelled *ist. I've got the ism, whatever.
Why is nobody allowed to discuss those 3 answers? Reddit committed suicide is now far behind Linkedin having overtly banned and pushed over 50% of their users off their site. Why is it that these 3 answers are bannable offences, but also not listed in the reddit rules? Well I asked... they dont want to boost these topics by putting them in the rules. So instead you get banned for violating a rule you didnt know was a rule? They unban you like as if they are doing you a favour.
Why is it governments have sunk billions if not trillions into trying to fix this problem... but refuse to look at the 3 answers? Are they willfully blind? Ignorance due to censorship is not an excuse.
You can have quadrillion $ into 'community development' and 'social infrastructure' but you are literally throwing that money into a pit of fire. It hasnt worked for decades... completely insane to keep trying. But taxpayer money grows on trees i guess.
Why do politicians not do the extremely unpopular, stupid to do, yet necessary changes? political suicide sure. In this case, probably assassinated.
Why does it have to become a crisis? Only after its a crisis will people listen to a fix, but we do have a social crisis.
The fundamental reason democracy needs actual free speech and no censorship is because sometimes you gotta say what's unpopular. Sometimes you even need to do it. But when you are in a situation where you even self-censor to avoid theoretical censorship, the discussion never happens.
This is why we are in this situation.
gspencley|1 year ago
I'm not just introverted, I am rather extreme ... to the point where I've wondered if I might have schizoid personality disorder (characterized by apathy towards forming close personal relationships).
I don't dislike being around people, I'm no misantrhope, but when I do engage in social activities I'm usually literally bed-ridden for a day or two after. I'm not even exaggerating. It is a level of fatigue that is reminiscent of the symptoms of clinical depression (but it's not depression because the cause and effect is well observed over 40 years of trying to figure myself out). When this happens I have zero motivation, zero energy, zero desire to do anything but sit on my fat unproductive lazy ass and be a complete vegetable and this will last for a day two depending on the intensity of the social interaction (if I go on vacation and disrupt my routine for a couple of weeks, I'm looking at upwards of a week to recover).
Introverts commonly describe the need "re-charge" after social interaction, and that's clearly what this is. It's just dialled up to 11 for me.
And this happens even if I had a great time with people that I really care about. Even date night with my wife will do this to me.
Every time I hear about the loneliness epidemic I wonder how universally applicable this is: to what degree are introverts susceptible to the negative effects of loneliness? To what degree do other introverts feel lonely? And are some people (like me) just wired so differently in the brain that we're "immune" to loneliness.
I mean I've gone months without talking to a single other human being. The data suggests that I should have all sorts of symptoms as a result, including "cabin fever" etc. But I've never experienced that. I certainly don't feel depressed when this happens. If anything I'm more productive and energetic and happy versus when I'm interacting with people regularly. I'm not even sure that I know what loneliness feels like or if I'm capable of experiencing it.
This is very personal and subjective. I'm mostly writing it just to see if other introverts feel the same or differently. If the "epidemic" is an "extrovert's epidemic" or I'm just, for lack of a better term, completely fucked in the head with an actual mental disorder that prevents me from ever feeling the slightest desire to connect with others, even following prolonged periods of isolation.
HeyLaughingBoy|1 year ago
If you think about it, it's not that unusual throughout history. Sailors, cowboys, shepherds, ranchers, prospectors, hunters etc., have been jobs done by those who preferred to be by themselves.
I remember watching a documentary about the first Iditarod. After the winner got to the finish line, there was an extravagant meal and cameras and news reporters. But the poor guy was so used to being alone with his dogs that he wasn't able to eat a thing with all those people around.
bubblic|1 year ago
lenerdenator|1 year ago
So it shall continue.
LIzzyytujghf|1 year ago
[deleted]
Salmonfisher11|1 year ago
[deleted]
toomuchtodo|1 year ago
We've done the line go up thing, and it isn't working out great. Maybe we could try something else?
qwerty456127|1 year ago
SketchySeaBeast|1 year ago
exe34|1 year ago
GuestFAUniverse|1 year ago
[deleted]
gruez|1 year ago
As if reddit (and similar left leaning spaces) aren't filled with "doomers" and "clowns".
draw_down|1 year ago
[deleted]