[vundercind]

Yes, there is a lot of money behind that position.

[tptacek]

Do you have an argument that would be persuasive to someone who doesn't believe the voters in every state where this was proposed were successfully hoodwinked by "money"?

[vundercind]

Hold on, we can come back to this, but: which states have held a vote on nationalizing (state-izing?) healthcare?