[blame-troi]

As being able to use a language to write an editor is a personal must-have in a language, your mention of kilo caught my eye. I did a quick read through of the Odin overview and FAQ and my initial impressions are positive. Bonus points to them for multiple return values and no automatic fallthrough on switch.

Have you tried zig? I'm casually looking for a C replacement and I took a quick look at zig but came away not liking the community vibe (some things were too dictatorial for my tastes).

If you did anything with zig, how would you say the languages compare?

[dartos]

Odin and Zig both have dictators.

Both are very nice people as long as you’re nice yourself, imo.

My opinions:

Odin’s creator has some strong opinions around not prioritizing LSPs and QoL tools around Odin.

Zig’s is a little more hard nosed about simplicity. Zig is a very small language for a reason.

I’m on my zig arc now, but Odin is next.

[suby]

Zig's compiler error on unused variables is a deal breaker for me unfortunately. The language author also has an insulting attitude towards anyone who wants otherwise, categorizing them as bad programmers he doesn't want to work with and doesn't want using Zig.

The compiler error on variables which are mutable when could be const is almost as annoying. Zig does not acknowledge that not all code is production code, that sometimes you want to prototype without having to backtrack and fix compiler errors to irrelevant things when the goal is prototyping and figuring out what you are building.

It also adds friction to learning the language because statements you write will immediately get flagged as wrong -- is it actually wrong due to your unfamiliarity with the language, or is it just the lsp immediately flagging and underlining all unused as red. Better take a moment to check.

Super annoying to me. I can't get past it, nor do I trust the author of Zig to not go even further in this direction. He has made it clear he will not compromise on this issue.

There are more planned similar errors on the way here. At least it looks like they are no loner planning to do compiler errors on unused pub functions if they are not accessible from outside the package.

Zig: Trust the programmer to manually manage memory, but not to clean up unused variables.

The language is weirdly pedantic, in ways orthogonal to Rust.

[FullGarden_S]

>Odin’s creator has some strong opinions around not prioritizing LSPs and QoL tools around Odin.

no, he does not. He just doesn't use LSP but never did he ever oppose QoL tools.

Odin has great support for LSP and they are working on other tools as well. Do note that Odin doesn't have a foundation like Rust or Zig so their pace of development will be at their own discretion. Please don't expect it to be similar to Zig or other well funded languages.

[gingerBill]

I am the creator of the Odin programming language. That's not even my opinion...

I do not personally use an LSP for my own personal reasons (I found I PERSONALLY was less productive with such tools). I am not against the concept of autocompletion tools like an LSP. If you are more productive using one, that is great!!! OLS exists but OLS is just not "official"—even if it is very good from what many people have told me. The only reason it is not official is that none of the core team worked on it, including myself.

As for QoL tools? Of course we want these but our philosophy is make sure the foundations are brilliant first before half-arsing the tool built on top of the foundations.

[przmk]

Not prioritizing tools is a mistake imho. I'd argue it helps a lot with adoption and you end up with useful tools.

[dismalaf]

Odin has a great LSP.

Gingerbill is mainly against package managers because ecosystems like NPM and Crates.io are a mess...

[melon_tusk]

The Zig-community is annoyingly political, whereas the Odin community and -creator focuses on technology.

[dpatterbee]

There's no community in the world that isn't political. Perhaps the issue is actually just that you disagree with the politics that are popular there?

[cgh]

How is the Zig community political? I use the language but I’m not involved with the community at all.