[z33k]

4 years ago I was 100kg @ 185cm. Never touched PEDs. All it took was being in the gym going all out for around 2 hours, 6 days a week. My body fat was 13% consistently. I tried going below 13% until it started to affect my strength.

The rest of my life also revolved around recovery and nutrition because very quickly I realized that I needed to make extraordinary efforts to allow my body to recover from the regimen. I slept 10+ hours and ate around 3300 cals daily (TDEE was massive).

Being on antidepressants at the time made eating these amounts much easier, as it seemed to turn off something in my brain responsible for me feeling satiated.

I started gym after being diagnosed with the psych issues. I really put 110% effort into it and got… big stretch marks because my muscles grew so fast. I don’t think what I was doing was ”healthy” as much as it was ”I am super depressed and heavy barbell squats is my coping mechanism”.

I just wanted to say, you don’t need PEDs to get ”scary” jacked. But you probably need to be crazy like me.

[DiskoHexyl]

If (and that is a big if. Most people severely underestimate their body fat levels. And with some touting 3% dexa scan results, even such measurements are suspect) you really were at a bmi of 29 (which, BTW, doesn't count as 30+ from my original statement ), then congrats on your amazing genetics and work ethic.

Still, to break that bmi 30 barrier significantly, while maintaining the same level of leanness, you'd likely require some additional 'help'.

And again - it is possible for a number of gifted people, just highly unlikely. Most males can't get that jacked no matter how much and how hard they train. I'd say that even with PEDs most wouldn't break that barrier while staying lean.

My personal best was a 28 bmi with what looked like a 9% body fat, veins fully visible at the lower abs and the hips etc, and it was absolutely unsustainable for more than a year, for a plethora of reasons. Can't even imagine gaining 3 more points.

To reiterate: I'd still focus on a BMI to gauge the public health - the genetic outliers are rare