[llamaLord]

These are all excellent examples of how MAID should be used, I think the concerning thing is the widening of the eligibility criteria - especially when things like mental illness start to make you eligible.

Like... If your illness makes you suicidal... Is offering assisted suicide REALLY the best we can do? That starts to feel a lot like "eghh you're too hard for society to care about... We'll just let you die".

As horrible as this might sound, often it's failed suicide attempts that actually are the catalysts for people being able to get their lives back on track... What happens in a society where the government helps facilitate suicide and there's never any "attempts" anymore... Just successes...

[DanHulton]

If you are sufficiently mentally ill and determined enough to die that you get through the MAID screening, counselling, information sessions, etc, then you are determined enough to die by other, messier, likely more painful, certainly more traumatizing to the people around you methods.

As well, mental illness is not just a state of mind. Sure, there are stories where a failed suicide attempt was the catalyst for someone finally being able to reach out for help, there are also the stories where people have been reaching out for help forever, and help's just not coming. Where they can't afford the medication, or no medication seems to work, or they have an addiction problem and there just isn't any way for them to get into a treatment program, etc.

Not to mention the stories where their attempt left them powerfully sick and/or disabled. We're talking near-miss fatalities here -- recovery from those is rarely painless, quick, or complete.

This isn't a case of medical professionals and program officials just not caring. These eligibility criteria are very carefully considered. In fact, they're SO carefully considered that they've delayed eligibility for MAID due solely to mental illness THREE TIMES to ensure proper safeguards are in place. Currently, it's pushed back to 2027, so we're not even talking about anything that is even a present-day concern.

(https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/ad-am/bk-di.html#s1_1)

[Lewton]

> Where they can't afford the medication, or no medication seems to work, or they have an addiction problem and there just isn't any way for them to get into a treatment program

I would consider two of these absolutely monstrous reasons to assist someone in killing themselves. A broken society opting into killing its citizens because it can’t be arsed with fixing itself is next level evil

[kstenerud]

My wife helped a friend die in Germany 10 years ago. He'd acquired some cyanide, which resulted in a long, protracted death because he took too much and vomited most of it up. It was messy, painful and traumatic, but she sat with him until the end.

When someone is determined enough to die, they find a way.

[wucaworld]

B.s. parent literally gave an example of someone that got access to MAID a week after their doc visit. I’ve changed my mind on things after a month. Not saying MAID is bad or should be banned. I’m saying people will 100 percent abuse the system. My concern is healthcare system practiioners. I am dealing with a ton of people whose job it is to press our family into a decision we don’t want to make. This includes an md, a social worker and a care coordinator. Canadas health care for old people and folks with dementia is a disgrace. Maid should not have to be the only option with dignity.

[TheNewsIsHere]

It’s strange to me how resistant society is to the idea that mental health is health. Not all there is to health, but someone suffering from terminal cancer is typically regarded very differently from someone suffering from an incurable mental illness.

Not every mental illness makes someone of unsound mind.

I see no difference between a case of someone who does not wish continue because of some incurable mental health issue that makes their life hell, and someone who does not wish to continue due to e.g. terminal cancer.

[defrost]

I'm with @navane, you're concerned about what is very much a minority edge case.

Still, I'll bite - it's a good thing.

Why? Well an official path to suicide, as per the arrangements already in place, comes with layers of professional guidance and counselling.

It's not a dispassionate "wave 'em through" treadmill of corpse creation.

The best thing for young people with suicidal affixations is to talk to them and take their concerns seriously, correctly established this could arguably reduce teen suicides by recognising the problem, giving the at risk a place to go, requiring them to detail why they want to die, etc.

If you want to take a dim view of faceless government motivations then you might ask yourself why such a souless collective would want to deprive itself of a potential taxpayer before they've even really started to chip in.

[llamaLord]

I get your point, but there are already MULTIPLE examples of people combining the mental-health component + some externality that is fundamentally a societal failing and coming to the conclusion that MAID is the optimal outcome.

"An expert committee reviewing euthanasia deaths in Canada’s most populous province has identified several cases in which patients asked [AND WERE APPROVED] to be killed in part for social reasons such as isolation and fears of homelessness, raising concerns over approvals for vulnerable people in the country’s assisted dying system."

-

"Another case focused on Ms B, a woman in her 50s suffering from multiple chemical sensitivity syndrome, who had a history of mental illness including suicidality and post-traumatic stress disorder. She was socially isolated and asked to die largely because she could not get proper housing, according to the report."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/17/canada-nonterm...

[navane]

That concerns a small minority of cases, the vast majority is elderly dying people who want to keep their dignity. By steering the discussion to that minority, which even itself is still debatable, you risk flushing the child with the bath water.

[mensetmanusman]

By hesitating to discuss, you enable bureaucrats to suggest maid when they want to save money instead of treating a disability (which has already happened in the case of the Olympian).

[larme]

The same logic applies to capital punishment

[TexanFeller]

Suicide is the ultimate “my body, my choice” issue, even more than abortion is. It’s monstrous to force someone with severe mental health problems to live if they don’t want to. I live an incredible life now that people envy, but I’ve had been through torturous mental health problems in the past. If I knew I had to face a year or two of my dark times again and I’d have 50 more years of my great life afterward I’m not sure if I’d choose to live.

[addicted]

The entire reason why the mental illness discussion is complicated is because with mental illness it’s not clear it is a choice.

And this isn’t even something made up for the particular case of assisted suicide. The idea that someone with mental illness cannot make legitimate choice has been around in the legal system for a while, with mental illness leading to reduced sentences, and even being the basis of acquittal in many situations.

[mensetmanusman]

They should do a study where they do fake maids (like catching a jumper) and then seeing if they regret living another month.

[datavirtue]

Oh well. You don't need to nanny everyone. They have probably tried all the drugs that have made it all worse. You don't have any real context for someones personal decision like this.

[MegaDeKay]

"Some provisions are in place, including a requirement of having two independent healthcare providers confirm that the patient is eligible before their request is approved."

[llamaLord]

Oh well that settles it then, because TWO medical professionals could never get something wrong, could they?