[supernetworks_]

Americans can’t invest directly in Chinese companies and shouldn’t be obligated to host Chinese companies in their markets or be surprised when political whims ban them, since the lack of shared investment is political too. People clearly enjoy the content on there so the outcome is sad but it’s a complicated economic dynamic that is hard to grasp

[throwaway2037]

    > Americans can’t invest directly in Chinese companies

This is not true. You can trade onshore Mainland China stocks through the Hongkong Stock Exchange. There is a special programmed called "Northbound" and "Southbound" in the broker-dealer industry. (This also allows investors from Mainland China to trades Hongkong stocks.) Any big brokerage should offer access to the Hongkong Stock Exchange. There is even a weird special currency called "CNH" that is the Chinese RMB that is allowed to settled in Hongkong, so you don't need a brokerage account in Mainland China to trade.

Read more here: https://www.hkex.com.hk/Mutual-Market/Connect-Hub/Stock-Conn...

[supernetworks_]

That’s a good clarification as not all companies are tech related and there are companies eligible for trading. However northbound trading still follows all applicable laws and there’s no access to direct ownership in some amazing companies

[solaarphunk]

Americans can definitely invest into most Chinese tech companies- the exception is direct investments into non-tech, licensed companies, that require a VIE structure, which enables Americans to still invest.

[supernetworks_]

This is what I meant by direct investment. Owning true controlling shares versus the cayman economic proxy

[codedokode]

Americans are selling iPhones into China and are getting exorbital profits from this though. Doesn't look fair to me.

[15155]

They have Xiaomi - they are free to ban iPhones if they so choose.

[shalmanese]

60% of Bytedance is owned by American investors https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/26/technology/tiktok-investo...

> Susquehanna, a global trading firm, first invested in ByteDance in 2012 and now owns roughly 15 percent of the company, a person familiar with the investment said. The Chinese arm of Sequoia Capital, a Silicon Valley venture capital firm, invested in ByteDance in 2014 when it was valued at $500 million. Sequoia’s U.S.-based growth fund later followed suit.

> General Atlantic, a private equity firm, invested in ByteDance in 2017 at a $20 billion valuation. Bill Ford, General Atlantic’s chief executive, has a seat on ByteDance’s board of directors. The company’s other notable U.S. investors include the private equity firms KKR and the Carlyle Group, as well as the hedge fund Coatue Management.

[wordofx]

Literally does not matter. ByteDance is a Chinese company and beholden to the CCP.

[supernetworks_]

I have been assuming that the ownership is in the Cayman company and it is analogous to the situation with VIEs.

The ownership would have no votes on controlling the company but only ownership for hypothetical dividends on profit from the cayman shell. If anybody knows otherwise please elucidate us.

Oddly enough Snapchat IPOd with stocks with zero control as well.

[tgma]

No one is restricted from "free exchange of ideas." TikTok can divest and stay in the US market just fine. It is an ownership question, not a freedom of exchange of ideas question. There is no constitutional right for a foreign entity to do unrestricted business in the United States.

US Congress likewise does not give a fuck what you think though, unless you are a US Citizen and even then you get a single vote. The US population at large has decided on this by their representative government.

[lovich]

And a larger portion of the population doesn’t care that you can’t share cat and dance videos on an app labeled TikTok instead of an app labeled Instagram or Reels or X other copycats. TikTok was allowed to continue to exist as well as long as they divested from Chinese ownership

[wholinator2]

Listen, if they actually ban it, a copycat within the us will pop up, and the network will move there. I actually think it might be beneficial to change apps every now and then, it helps break the network effects that make apps "too big to fail".

All that will likely change is people will slowly move to a US alternative, one that's propagandized by the US and not china. You'll still be allowed to have whatever discussions you want on there, conservative qanon theories, or anarchist calls to action. The videos will go into the NSA database instead of china's, it'll train our algorithms instead of theirs, etc. The app will now be bound by US Law, for better or for worse. But if slow moving from an app is going to crush your political belief/circle/movement, you didn't have one to begin with.

[supernetworks_]

Your second sentence is a gross misunderstanding and you might benefit from some therapy to be kinder to others. Regarding the first do you realize TikTok is not allowed in China and Byte Dance runs Douyin with a government safety system for content ? And secondly would you consider any government modifying a virality algorithm to still be a free speech platform?

[wiseowise]

I do. West is being bombarded by disinformation that hides under “freedom of speech” umbrella.