[Shakahs]

After years of Python and TypeScript, I've started using Java as my default for everything. It's just so much more productive. The ancient developer memes that Java is slow and clunky don't apply anymore.

Postgres also had a long-held reputation for being slow and difficult, but it made incremental improvements for decades and now it's the default choice for databases.

I see Java in the exact same position, as the Postgres of languages.

[cflewis]

The problem with Java since Java 8 has never been Java. It's been about the appalling ecosystem that infected it with reflection frameworks. It was bonkers that "POJO" was ever a thing that had to be defined.

It feels like these frameworks are now just falling away, which is great. I'm not even hearing about Spring anymore, and if there is any reason to not use it, it would be this cringe "how do you do fellow kids?" blurb I just saw on their front page:

> Level up your Java™ code

> With Spring Boot in your app, just a few lines of code is all you need to start building services like a boss.

I personally would reach for Go by default, but I have no ill-will to Java.

[gf000]

Spring boot is itself also very different than Spring, so depending on what was your last experience with these frameworks, you might be surprised.

Given, they are still quite reflection-heavy and full of POJOs and annotations, it supports compile-time resolution for many things now.

Also, you would be hard-pressed to find a more productive developer than a well-versed Spring boot guru for typical backend jobs. You might dislike the framework, but credit where it's due, it is a workhorse and the amount of time someone makes a POC, you can make it with spring properly, in a way that you can build your prod app on top. Like, it's easily as productive as RoR and similar.

[qsort]

> The problem with Java since Java 8

I agree with the sentiment, but I'd move up to a version with type inference at least. I have nothing against static types and in fact in a vacuum I prefer them, but the particular brand of OO and "weak" generics that Java and C# have feels like filling forms in triplicate. "var" alleviates that significantly.

[MattPalmer1086]

Ahhhhh, yes. Java itself isn't bad and has been getting better. The frameworks made me want to scream.

[sdf4j]

First time I hear those claims about Postgres. Was that the sentiment 30 years ago?

[Tostino]

If say it was only about 15 years ago that the Postgres is slow stuff started dying off. Right around 2010.

[dannyobrien]

It was definitely initially seen as big and cumbersome compared to MySQL, but sentiment shifted.

[bcoates]

14 years or less. Any version of Postgres before 9.0 was a nightmare to administer as a real production transactional dbms, at least the off the shelf version without a whole lot of tweaking without a (then very rare) pg expert.

[agumonkey]

what parts do you enjoy now ?

I do agree that new ecosystems (js for instance) makes you miss some of the old big languages development feel. less churn