If you're based in the USA, if your business is largely with Americans and conducted exclusively in USD, then: yes. You're in luck.
What's that? You're one of the 6.7 billion people who don't live in the USA? You want to conduct business in more than one currency? You're not an American company?
Then guess what: you're still stuck with PayPal.
Nobody seems to get that PayPal's killer feature is not its userbase. It's that it's everywhere and has multi-currency support.
I would very much like to use Stripe or Braintree or whoever there is who doesn't resemble the truly and sincerely Kafkaesque[1] experience of dealing with PayPal. But until I, as an Australian, can do business with foreigners in their currency then Stripe and the like are basically useless to me.
All I can do is lick the windows.
[1]: I'm semi-serious. Read The Trial and tell me it wasn't written about having a PayPal account frozen.
If you think that the primary problem in payments is technical, maintaining data integrity while bits get shuffled around, then you tend to expect that things like user base, convenience, user experience, aesthetics, etc. will have a big impact on the rising or falling popularity of any particular payment service.
If, on the other hand, you think that the technical problems are just the foundation and the big problems are actually things like regulatory compliance, fraud reduction, reducing cost of payments, and maintaining strong relationships with processors, governments, and banks then the landscape looks a hell of a lot different.
Paypal has already tackled the easy problems, and has been tackling the harder problems a lot better than any of the competition, with the very significant exception of customer service. If you want to trade money between any two individuals on the planet paypal is by far the most likely solution to the problem aside from air mailing gold coins. And paypal spends a hell of a lot more effort on things like detecting and mitigating fraud (and money laundering, and phishing, and so on) and expanding into more countries than most of its competitors. That's why they're still on top.
When you consider that estimated North American internet usage makes up less than 20% of total internet usage[1], I don't think PayPal has anything to worry about for a long time.
They are the almost defacto standard for personal payments online will keep them in the top spot for a long time due to network effects. Without a serious shift in usage, its hard to see that changing any time soon.
As an anecdote, my grandmother passed away last week. Her 86 year old sister back in Germany asked us if we had PayPal this week so she could send flowers for her funeral. It may not be a "hot" company in the US, but its still highly relevant to the vast majority of internet users, even ones that are only just venturing onto the web.
[1] I don't know the actual number as everywhere I've looked suggests between 13% and 15%. I figure less than 20% is a safe bet.
Funny enough, I came here to argue more or less the opposite.
In many countries, the standard payment problems have been largely solved locally, at least for the local markets. In the Netherlands, a wide selection of payment providers will give you the ability to receive payment through virtually any method.
Merchant accounts are easy to get, and the most popular local form of payment, iDeal (direct "my bank to your bank" payment), is supported by all banks and can be easily implemented without the need for any payment provider. The vast majority of all only transactions in NL go through iDeal.
Most payment providers also offer multi-currency support, but it's only a very small part of the market that needs that. The use of PayPal is very rare and becoming rarer by the day. It's about as old school as seeing a "made for Netscape" button on a website.
There's only one area where PayPal is easier and more accessible, and that is very low budget private stuff like donations on a small software project. But given the constant horror stories about PayPal, any solution that targets that market effectively will wipe PayPal away in a matter of months. And then PayPal will be history in the Netherlands.
"Has anyone under 30 ever bid on something on eBay?"
What a load of shit. I'm 25, and I use ebay all the time.
Sure, you can make the argument that Etsy and Amazon are taking business away from eBay. But suggesting that they have replaced eBay as a platform is ridiculous. This is also a very USA-centric view to take. I'm from Australia, so using Amazon is a pain due to manufacturer export restrictions, and the often prohibitively expensive shipping costs. So in many cases eBay is a better alternative. And as for Etsy, it serves a niche. If you want to set up an online store to sell kitschy homemade toot, knock yourself out and use Etsy. But if I want to sell some of my second hand stuff, eBay is what I'm using.
Australia is partly to blame for its own woes there -- Amazon have said in the past that they won't set up a .au subsidiary while there are parallel import restrictions on books.
All hail the luvvies, who made all books more expensive for all Australians, so they could protect a handful of novelists, playwrights and poets.
You, being merely a single example of an individual who does not fit her statement, does not invalidate her point that it's a marketplace that an older demographic audience uses.
If she (and you) could demonstrate that as being true (or false) with research and statistics, then she (and you) would have a leg to stand on.
I stopped using eBay 6 years ago, and for 5 years before that I used it every week, for buying and selling. eBay is fast becoming irrelevant. And I'm not in the US either.
Wow, that's a shockingly bad article, even from Sarah Lacy's standards. Here's a summary:
"Here's a list of PayPal's fringe competitors" -> PayPal is VERY screwed
"Ex-PayPal co-founder says bad things about PayPal, while investing in a small competitor" -> PayPal is VERY screwed
"Young startup has a better user experience compared to 10-year old behemoth" -> PayPal is VERY screwed.
Sure, some of Lacy's Valley friends are making (or investing in) interesting products in the payments space, but man, does she let her 'network' write all her articles or what.
I'm going to ignore all of this article except for:
"The first step was Canada, where Stripe has just gone live. It’s actively working on Western Europe too."
This isn't even true is it? There's no mention of this on their site/blog. Nothing on Google. Their Twitter feed even recently replied to someone saying it isn't in Canada.
Yeah, let's just ignore all facts, such as actual financials, those don't matter when you're a tech reporter who likes to make things up out of thin air, right?
I dislike PayPal, but this is a terrible piece, and what is it, fluff for NSFW, Corp.?
Completely agree. The most shockingly amusing part is in the second paragraph, where she uses the fact she has no financial proof as her financial proof...
PayPal is not going anywhere for the same reason Facebook is not going anywhere - over time both created a solid presence for non-technical users. No matter how cool squared looks i can guarantee you a typical paypal user won't care because what they have works good enough. It's the same reason G+ will never be more popular than facebook. For a typical user there is very little incentive to switch.
"It may not be showing up in PayPal’s numbers yet. Indeed, by the time you start to see these things on the balance sheet, the damage is irreversible. The question is whether it can still be reversed now."
So much Win in that small paragraph alone. So, the numbers are good, put you are not convinced... because why? Ah yes, the damage is irreversible - let's see how we can reverse the irreversible then, shall we? Mind, blown.
I have two reports of people having their accounts frozen for 6 months at paypal for no apparent reason, no recourse and no explanation.
I also have severe problems paying with paypal. Why is it that I can pay on amazon, apple, expedia etc etc very easily, never have a problem, but when I try to enter my credit card on paypal they do not allow the payment?
And yes from personal experience braintree is a million times better than paypal.
The reason listing fees exist is to reduce the amount of dumped crap onto eBay. Besides, for individual sellers, listing fees are basically gone (or de minimis) anyway. There's a perpetual 'promotion' for your first N listings a month to be free of listing fees.
As far as I am aware Amazon is taking a larger percentage of the end sale, so could in fact cost more than eBay for businesses depending on how many products you are listing and how many are actually selling.
100% agree. The poster just wasn't thinking. But nor was the Author. I just bought 6 Computer Parts on Ebay! I am only 28. The Computer parts were by far the cheapest place to buy them and they worked 100% out of the box. I saved nearly $1,000 by buying them on Ebay.
Brand New goes to Amazon and Sometimes Ebay. But Second Hand items, I always hit up Ebay.
[+] [-] jacques_chester|13 years ago|reply
What's that? You're one of the 6.7 billion people who don't live in the USA? You want to conduct business in more than one currency? You're not an American company?
Then guess what: you're still stuck with PayPal.
Nobody seems to get that PayPal's killer feature is not its userbase. It's that it's everywhere and has multi-currency support.
I would very much like to use Stripe or Braintree or whoever there is who doesn't resemble the truly and sincerely Kafkaesque[1] experience of dealing with PayPal. But until I, as an Australian, can do business with foreigners in their currency then Stripe and the like are basically useless to me.
All I can do is lick the windows.
[1]: I'm semi-serious. Read The Trial and tell me it wasn't written about having a PayPal account frozen.
[+] [-] InclinedPlane|13 years ago|reply
If, on the other hand, you think that the technical problems are just the foundation and the big problems are actually things like regulatory compliance, fraud reduction, reducing cost of payments, and maintaining strong relationships with processors, governments, and banks then the landscape looks a hell of a lot different.
Paypal has already tackled the easy problems, and has been tackling the harder problems a lot better than any of the competition, with the very significant exception of customer service. If you want to trade money between any two individuals on the planet paypal is by far the most likely solution to the problem aside from air mailing gold coins. And paypal spends a hell of a lot more effort on things like detecting and mitigating fraud (and money laundering, and phishing, and so on) and expanding into more countries than most of its competitors. That's why they're still on top.
[+] [-] froo|13 years ago|reply
They are the almost defacto standard for personal payments online will keep them in the top spot for a long time due to network effects. Without a serious shift in usage, its hard to see that changing any time soon.
As an anecdote, my grandmother passed away last week. Her 86 year old sister back in Germany asked us if we had PayPal this week so she could send flowers for her funeral. It may not be a "hot" company in the US, but its still highly relevant to the vast majority of internet users, even ones that are only just venturing onto the web.
[1] I don't know the actual number as everywhere I've looked suggests between 13% and 15%. I figure less than 20% is a safe bet.
[+] [-] rickmb|13 years ago|reply
In many countries, the standard payment problems have been largely solved locally, at least for the local markets. In the Netherlands, a wide selection of payment providers will give you the ability to receive payment through virtually any method.
Merchant accounts are easy to get, and the most popular local form of payment, iDeal (direct "my bank to your bank" payment), is supported by all banks and can be easily implemented without the need for any payment provider. The vast majority of all only transactions in NL go through iDeal.
Most payment providers also offer multi-currency support, but it's only a very small part of the market that needs that. The use of PayPal is very rare and becoming rarer by the day. It's about as old school as seeing a "made for Netscape" button on a website.
There's only one area where PayPal is easier and more accessible, and that is very low budget private stuff like donations on a small software project. But given the constant horror stories about PayPal, any solution that targets that market effectively will wipe PayPal away in a matter of months. And then PayPal will be history in the Netherlands.
[+] [-] gurkendoktor|13 years ago|reply
Another thing is that PayPal works without a credit card in most cases, it can directly withdraw from my bank account.
[+] [-] jasonwatkinspdx|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chewxy|13 years ago|reply
You're welcome.
[+] [-] draftable|13 years ago|reply
What a load of shit. I'm 25, and I use ebay all the time.
Sure, you can make the argument that Etsy and Amazon are taking business away from eBay. But suggesting that they have replaced eBay as a platform is ridiculous. This is also a very USA-centric view to take. I'm from Australia, so using Amazon is a pain due to manufacturer export restrictions, and the often prohibitively expensive shipping costs. So in many cases eBay is a better alternative. And as for Etsy, it serves a niche. If you want to set up an online store to sell kitschy homemade toot, knock yourself out and use Etsy. But if I want to sell some of my second hand stuff, eBay is what I'm using.
[+] [-] tomflack|13 years ago|reply
I also get the sense they want to be the first to say something is happening rather than could happen, at the expense of accuracy.
[+] [-] jacques_chester|13 years ago|reply
All hail the luvvies, who made all books more expensive for all Australians, so they could protect a handful of novelists, playwrights and poets.
[+] [-] brimanning|13 years ago|reply
If she (and you) could demonstrate that as being true (or false) with research and statistics, then she (and you) would have a leg to stand on.
[+] [-] john_flintstone|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trotsky|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ojbyrne|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alaskamiller|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] antidaily|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zs11|13 years ago|reply
"Here's a list of PayPal's fringe competitors" -> PayPal is VERY screwed
"Ex-PayPal co-founder says bad things about PayPal, while investing in a small competitor" -> PayPal is VERY screwed
"Young startup has a better user experience compared to 10-year old behemoth" -> PayPal is VERY screwed.
Sure, some of Lacy's Valley friends are making (or investing in) interesting products in the payments space, but man, does she let her 'network' write all her articles or what.
[+] [-] bretthopper|13 years ago|reply
"The first step was Canada, where Stripe has just gone live. It’s actively working on Western Europe too."
This isn't even true is it? There's no mention of this on their site/blog. Nothing on Google. Their Twitter feed even recently replied to someone saying it isn't in Canada.
[+] [-] marekmroz|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nowarninglabel|13 years ago|reply
I dislike PayPal, but this is a terrible piece, and what is it, fluff for NSFW, Corp.?
[+] [-] nsns|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WadeF|13 years ago|reply
See: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4092880
[+] [-] octotoad|13 years ago|reply
It seems obvious in hindsight, but I'd never realised how many article headlines ending with a question mark naturally contained so much fluff.
I now instinctively answer the question with a 'no' and move on without reading any further.
[+] [-] chris_wot|13 years ago|reply
A: "No"
[+] [-] sakopov|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] krautsourced|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] timedoctor|13 years ago|reply
I also have severe problems paying with paypal. Why is it that I can pay on amazon, apple, expedia etc etc very easily, never have a problem, but when I try to enter my credit card on paypal they do not allow the payment?
And yes from personal experience braintree is a million times better than paypal.
[+] [-] ars|13 years ago|reply
These days I go to amazon first for used stuff since people can list there with no fees, so I get better deals.
The only place where ebay wins is one of a kinds since amazon will only sell items with SKU's or part numbers.
[+] [-] gergles|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robryan|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomjen3|13 years ago|reply
Paypal subscriptions are dead simple to cancel and there is no way to for the merchant to make any funny business, at all.
[+] [-] zerostar07|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rsanchez1|13 years ago|reply
I'm under 30, and I just won two auctions in the past week, bidding on many more to buy at the lowest price.
Really, we're posting articles from Pando? And it's from Sarah Lacey to boot. This article can't be anything but accurate. Oh, hold on, never mind...
[+] [-] spoiledtechie|13 years ago|reply
Brand New goes to Amazon and Sometimes Ebay. But Second Hand items, I always hit up Ebay.
[+] [-] koala_advert|13 years ago|reply