[kidk]

From city center to city center by train vs airplane

Rough estimate for a flight:

- 36 min train from Gare de l’Est to Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport

- 90 min arrival before your flight (security, check-in, gate closes before flight leaves, ..)

- 100 min flight time

- 20 min getting out of the airport

- 30 min taxi to Berlin Hbf (assuming no traffic)

I think if you have large bags you can add an extra hour (max) even as check-in will take longer, and you'll have to wait for your bag.

Which makes it 8,5 hours vs 4.6 hours, or 5.6 hours with bags. (I added 30 minutes to the train as you probably need to be there a little early.)

Having done this a couple of times (Amsterdam to Berlin, which is about the same) with both modes of transport. I have to say I prefer the train if I have the time. Much more relaxed way of transportation. You can work the whole way there, and there are ok lunch options on the train.

[chii]

The majority of the air travel time is spent in the airport, doing "administrative" things.

If air travel could be more streamlined (aka, no need for things like security, check-in, like how a train would be), then trains are absolutely uncompetitive on speed.

The only advantage of a train would be that you could more easily sleep in one - so an overnight trip is less tiring, and you save on cost of an extra night of hotel stay.

[prawn]

I also find all the interruptions while you're on the plane itself tedious. Waiting for all the luggage wrangling, the safety briefing, the welcome from the crew, the message from the captain, the announcement about food or drinks, another message from the captain, various seatbelt-related announcements, something about duty free, and on and on. And they're all in that verbose style, like ChatGPT. Makes using any in-flight entertainment miserable.

[Scarblac]

And there's more to see out of the window, and you can take breaks (leave the train for a couple of hours to explore a city along the way, then continue on the next).

And of course it's much better on CO2 emissions.

But trains need a lot of infrastructure and long delays are frequent.

[athrowaway3z]

Doesn't this kind of argument work the other way around as well?

If we get rid of other considerations, and train travel could be more streamlined (strap a jet engine on a train, no need to gain altitude), then airplanes are absolutely uncompetitive on speed.

[marcosscriven]

This was always the upsetting thing about Eurostar/Eurotunnel between UK and France. In my naive teens I dreamt of how wonderful it would be if we joined Shengen and could literally just hop on the train to Paris. But sadly we went the other way and completely left - and now it’s as bad or worse than any airport.

[snapplebobapple]

that experience still exists flying private. You submit a passport photo the day before for prechecking then get a quick verify at the terminal. Its max 45 minutes from arrival to walking to plane and going. There is no reason we couldnt be doing that for all flights combined with marginally better pilot security. We arent because government has been (n the path of stupid for so long that it cant seem to change

[rf15]

for frequent flyers, radiation exposure is also a factor.

[pantalaimon]

There is also a night train, which I find even more convenient for long distances.

Sure it’s slower, but you’ll spend most of the time sleeping and it saves you one night at a hotel.

https://www.nightjet.com/de/reiseziele/frankreich

[martijnarts]

The night trains are great. It's quite comfortable, you get there in the morning allowing for a full day (after dropping off your bags at the hotel) of work/tourism, and I especially hope Nightjet and other night train companies converts all of their trains to the modern mini cabins[0].

They're incredible.

[0]: https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/nightjet-new-genera...

[rplnt]

Unfortunately more expensive than a plane+hotel and has to be booked well in advance. It's worth the experience, at least for me, but it's not a real alternative.

[prmoustache]

Also, if you don't want to go to the bar in the train, you can totally picnic without having to pay airport level of extortion for drink and food. You can bring your own food on a plane but not drinks and if you are having lunch in the plane but it is just not that comfortable, better doing that in the terminal.

[rand0m4r]

Totally agree.

I used to go to Holland and Germany from France back when I was living there and even though at the time it would take longer (slower and less trains) the trip was totally worth it: I even met people who eventually became friends. Now, when flying from Spain to France (every couple of years), even though the flight is less than two hours, the entire trip is more than four, and much less fun or enjoyable as far as I'm concerned. For the moment, it's just easier to take the plane but that's supposed to change... We'll see.

[weinzierl]

"I have to say I prefer the train if I have the time. Much more relaxed way of transportation."

Me too, but I worry a bit that it might change. A big part of the inconvenience of flying is the security checks[1].

I only see these ramped up for trains as well. Look at the EuroStar for a glimpse into the future. I am afraid it will only take one bigger attack and we will turn train stations into airports security-wise.

[1] The other big one is airports being far from centres.

[jltsiren]

That won't happen outside a handful of high-profile routes. Railway stations are far too small for security checks with the passenger volume they are handling.

Terrorist attacks on trains and railway stations are not that rare. The last major one was in November in Pakistan.

[Symbiote]

The Channel Tunnel is unique in Europe for being a long, undersea tunnel.

No other train in Britain or France has security checks.

[noprocrasted]

> Look at the EuroStar for a glimpse into the future

This bullshit also happens in Barcelona Sants for the long-distance trains.

[teekert]

Same for Rotterdam - London, the planes don't fly to the city center + the Train is a premium experience (power, wifi, second class seats on train similar to first class on plane, little cafe to walk to and eat drink, arrives in the city center). All in all this make the time similar but the experience by train much better.

[hyhconito]

Indeed that is the case there but you have to evaluate every journey based on a number of factors.

Recently I had to get a train 250km in Italy and it would have been quicker, cheaper and less stressful to fly to London and back due to the problems.

[thefz]

Not to add the comparatively smaller CO2 footprint

[tgv]

There is a lot less capacity, though. And I don't see how that can be improved without massive investments.