[gpapilion]

I don’t know this is significantly different than modern engines. They require special tools and software too.

The bigger issue I think is most of the cars are teslas, which didn’t behave like a normal automaker for better or worse. For example the work done during the pandemic to avoid supply chain crunches may result in a maintenance headache a few years from now.

[PittleyDunkin]

I don't understand why consumers would WANT to shift to electric if most of the benefit of shifting to electric is consumed by corporate ratfuckery

[RevEng]

I encourage you to try driving one. Even if you don't care about the possibilities for improved energy efficiency and reduced pollution, or don't care for the latest technology, the driving experience is wonderful. Instant power, smooth, quiet. Up here in Canada it's even better: no spending 10 minutes for it to warm up - about 60 seconds before it's blowing hot air and otherwise no need to warm up an engine. I've driven older manual vehicles for two decades, but after two years driving an EV I never want to go back.

[Moto7451]

Very core parts of modern cars are essentially single use. Older engines could have the cylinders resurfaced or bored and sleeved. Newer engines have coatings and construction methods that disallow this. One scratched cylinder is now the end of a whole engine given the various matched parts that can’t be swapped block to block.

In the standard case this doesn’t matter as things last a long time inside an engine. The same is probably true for EVs.

When things go wrong all the repairability issues mean you’re out a car unless you’re willing to invest in repair. Is a 30K car worth a 20K repair bill? The Audi service department is happy to walk you to the sales department if not.

[UniverseHacker]

You can rebuild modern engines by boring out the block and installing a sleeve of the same block material and coating material, it’s just a lot more expensive. For a valuable car like a Porsche 911 this is typically done- the sleeves alone will cost 5-10k: https://lnengineering.com/porsche-996-997-987-3-4-or-3-6-96m...

[eastbound]

An electric motor is dirt cheap compared to the ingenuity of an ICE. The battery is expensive because it’s a lot of mass of peculiar rare earths, but motors aren’t.

[more_corn]

^ This comment consists of entirely made up bullshit.

[wakawaka28]

The difference is, ICE car parts don't generally require replacement of everything at once. They can be made by 3rd parties, and defective parts usually break in boring ways. Batteries have none of these nice properties. You have to change the whole thing at once, it requires proprietary high tech to make a compatible battery, and any defect could burn down your house or a parking garage with unextinguishable metal fires. Yikes!

It is possible for an EV to be serviced and remain operable for long enough to become an antique, but no modern EVs are built that way. Most modern ICE cars aren't built that way either but they have a much better chance at longevity because their parts don't really have a limited shelf life, and there is a large aftermarket for many of them.

[bryanlarsen]

All three of those properties do apply to a Nissan Leaf. There are third party batteries and you can replace individual cells. But the lack of integrated cooling that enables this means the battery doesn't last. Better to get a car where the battery lasts the life of the vehicle.

> defective parts usually break in boring ways

I think this is far more true on an EV than an ICE. Batteries generally fail very predictably and are generally still usable even when degraded.

[lm28469]

New cars definitely have the same problem, they're computers on wheels with sensors every where. You can bring a 1980s shit box anywhere and unless it's totalled they'll get it running. For anything build after 2010: good luck. Let's see what happens when you bring your vintage 2012 tesla to a garage in the 2050s

I still dream of the US/EU coming up with a standardized set of chassis/engines instead of having dozens of companies independently spending millions trying to solve the same problems

Deep down I know all this complexity is needed because it generates a shit ton of money from fake competition, maintenance schedules, parts price gouging, &c. The inefficiency and waste is a feature

[Animats]

> I still dream of the US/EU coming up with a standardized set of chassis/engines instead of having dozens of companies independently spending millions trying to solve the same problems

BYD has done that, with their E-Axle. The E-Axle has the axle, wheels, and motor. It goes with a BYD "8 in one" electronics power box and a battery. Here is their pitch to Japanese carmakers.[1] Google translated version follows. (Google Translate has become much better at Japanese lately.) The automaker buys the E-axle, power box, and battery, plugs them together, and hooks it to the driver interface with CANbus. This approach seems to have cut the cost of BYD's cars.

Other companies are now marketing E-axles for trucks.[2] Trucking has a lot of builders who start with a bare chassis and add industry-specific bodies and equipment - ambulance, tow truck, etc. BYD itself sells light truck sized versions, and Dana sells heavy truck dual axle versions.

It's quite possible that a mounting point standard will emerge for this, like NEMA motor mounts or jet engine pylons. Then you can use different E-axle vendors.

[1] https://byd.co.jp/e-life/manufacturer_stories04/

[1] https://byd-co-jp.translate.goog/e-life/manufacturer_stories...

[2] https://www.trucksales.com.au/editorial/details/what-is-an-e...

[jeffbee]

At what point would you have standardized this rapidly improving category of product? Would you have frozen the interfaces around the time of the Dodge Intrepid[1]? Perhaps after considering that example you start to see the problem with standardization.

You hear the same think about electric bikes, and the argument has the same fatal flaws. Current e-bikes are massively better than what was on the market 3, 5, and 10 years ago. Standardizing them at any point would have been catastrophic, and we must assume that standardization now would also be catastrophic.

[1: That said, all cars are converging on the exterior shape of the Intrepid, in a process similar to carcinization among animals. Weird!]

[FredPret]

Standardization will be great... for 1-2 years.

After that, you'll start losing out on lost innovation that wasn't allowed to happen.

"Dozens of companies independently spending millions solving the same problems" only seems wasteful if you don't think about this in terms of at least a couple of steps of game theory. Competing co's come up with a variety of different solutions, leaving us in a more robust state with lots of different options.

Also, good luck getting a standard that the US and EU agrees on - look at how differently the free market solved the car problem in both of those places. Europeans and Americans want different things from their vehicles.