[smarkov]

This is a step in the right direction but still doesn't address my biggest concern with e-waste - the battery.

Because almost none of the electronics you buy come with a replaceable battery, the second you buy something and use it on a regular basis it's destined to die and be thrown out within the next 4-8ish years due to the battery degrading and becoming increasingly more dangerous to keep around. Something that might be in perfect working condition and could be used for another 10 years has to be thrown out because of one single component.

I understand that batteries come in all shapes, sizes, capacities, yada yada, but imagine if we had standard rechargeable batteries like we have standard non-rechargeable batteries and things were built in a way where you could easily replace batteries like we could on phones a decade ago. You would double or triple the lifespan of a ton of things.

[kelnos]

The thing that really annoys me is that batteries in most phones are indeed replaceable, but so many people just trash their phone when the battery life gets bad. Sure, many/most of these phones don't have a user replaceable battery, but even for high-end phones you can get the battery replaced for under $100 (and that's on the high end; for many you can get it done for half that).

I don't know if this is an education problem or what. Maybe manufacturers make it less obvious that you can get batteries replaced, because doing so would hurt sales of new phones. I dunno.

Sure, in an ideal world standardized batteries would be available off the shelf, and regular people could replace theirs with standard or even no tools. But honestly, I don't think the world we live in is that terrible when it comes to this.

[kalleboo]

I think a lot of people want a new device and use the battery getting weak as an excuse to justify the expense

[ninalanyon]

I could have had someone replace the battery in my Moto G%+ a couple of years ago. But it would have cost at least 800 NOK (about 80 USD). Instead I bought a Moto G30 for 1 200 NOK (about 120 USD) which has a better camera, faster processor, and more storage space.

Mobile phones haven't yet reached the point of diminishing returns on power, cameras, etc., so it doesn't yet make economical sense for an individual to keep the old devices working. I have kept the Moto G5+ and I use it as an internet radio and to listen to podcasts so it isn't a complete waste. Unfortunately the battery is now in such a poor state that I have to keep it on a timer to cut off charging frequently to avoid overheating.

Android could of course make batteries last longer by giving the user control over the charging regime.

[erremerre]

I am going to say something that I haven't found anywhere but it has been my experience with every single battery replacement I ir somewhat close had.

The new battery, even if it's Samsung original, it isn't as good as new, it is better than the old one, but not anywhere close as first day phone.

Why? No idea. I imagine that although the battery is new it was built circa when the model was in production and somehow that has affected its capacity.

So you get a phone, you pay 60/80 euros, and you get maybe, two hours more of battery when a new phone would give you 6 or 7.

[thayne]

For a 4-5 year phone "under $100" still might be more than the phone is worth.

And then there is the other problem that an old enough phone is no longer getting software updates, including security updates either.

Yes, it is still probably less than buying a new phone but you don't know how long it will be before another component dies. If replacing the battery gives you another 4-5 years it might be worth it, but if something else is going to break in a couple months, probably not.

[squigz]

I think this is indeed a problem of awareness - and I'm sure you're right that companies wouldn't go out of their way to let users know they can do so - but also one of trustworthiness: I think a lot of people don't trust third-party repair shops because they feel it's sketchy or unsafe in some way. If phone manufacturers were like, "Here's a list of our trusted third-party repair shops and the parts they can fix" I imagine a lot more people would get their stuff repaired.

[Krssst]

Unfortunately, after a few years lack of security updates will also force plenty of users to upgrade.

[edflsafoiewq]

Hopefully not trashed. There's always the second hand market.

[edflsafoiewq]

EU regulations requiring portable batteries to be removable/replaceable by the end-user take effect February 18, 2027.

[Reason077]

Apple have already been taking steps to comply with this, with new “electrically-induced adhesive debonding” glue used to secure the iPhone 16 battery, instead of the problematic "stretch to remove" adhesive strips.

Apparantely this makes it significantly easier to change the battery compared to previous models:

https://www.macrumors.com/2024/09/11/apple-makes-iphone-16-b...

[whitehexagon]

Standardized and widely available batteries would also be a huge step forward. Like the old nokia phone batteries that you could pick up anywhere.

Recently I started buying gadgets that have 18650 batteries, seems about the only standard around, but trying to buy the batteries has been a challenge. I even tried a couple European Amzn stores, but they only seem to have third party suppliers. It put me off from buying the MNT Reform even though I love the concept.

And the 18650 USB torch I bought has some stupid propriety magnetic connector on one end, so I'd say any such legislation should include both ends of these charger cables.

[Someone]

That is not 100% correct. The wording (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_instituti..., page 55) is

“portable batteries incorporated in appliances shall be readily removable and replaceable by end users or by independent operators”

[smarkov]

Huh, I've heard about this for a while but for some reason thought it was strictly regarding phones, maybe because they've been making the biggest headlines about it. Looking forward to it then.

[Dalewyn]

I'm going to assume something got lost in this game of telephone because this otherwise sounds like an oxymoron: Of course a "portable" battery would be removable and replacable.

[maeil]

I'll believe it when I see it. With the way the EU has been going, good chance it will get shelved before it goes into effect.

[ggreer]

Removable batteries are a trade-off. They improve repairability and device longevity, but they increase manufacturing costs, reduce the effectiveness of waterproofing, and increase customer support issues. Battery contacts can degrade or become loose, causing phones to power off unexpectedly when handled roughly. Customers buy cheap 3rd party batteries and then complain to the phone manufacturer when battery life is poor. In some cases, 3rd party batteries malfunction and damage the phone (or even cause injury), and the customer blames the phone manufacturer. Samsung and Apple don't want to see news articles about their phones blowing up, even if it's obviously not their fault. And yes, they do tend to sell more phones if they use integrated batteries.

Rather than mandating a specific solution, a better strategy would be to tax electronic waste so that manufacturers have more financial incentive to make phones that last longer. It might also be helpful to limit the liability of anyone who sells phones with removable batteries, or have more standards for battery manufacturers, as most malfunctions will be due to 3rd party batteries.

[mmis1000]

Most phones don't have battery that is removable. But they are indeed serviceable. The battery alone is generally about 10 to 20 usd. And depends on where you are, add the service fee. Your phone is again good for 2 or 3 years. It's really just a tiny portion of new phone consider high end phones today went up to 1000~1500 usd range.

The official vendor normally have an artificially high service fee because they want you to buy a new one instead which is much more profitable. But servicing it in third party vendors isn't that expensive.

[merb]

Before the iPhone came we actually had replaceable batteries on most phones and it worked really well. Battery contacts degrading is definitely not a problem for a phone that has a lifetime of maximum of like 7 years. Yes waterproofing becomes harder but it is not impossible. Manufacturing costs are also not an issue since most phones have margins beyond 300%.

[econ]

Many repair shops will put old or cheap batteries in your phone. Even if they buy an expensive one they don't necessarily know what it is.

There are a lot of waterproof connectors on the market. They pretty much all work but if a standard is chosen it will absolutely be one that works.

I've used a good few battery powered tools, even cloths. If any manufacturer made [say] a drill with a glued battery I wouldn't use it if you paid me for it. You just walk to the charger, swap the battery and get back to whatever you were doing. There is nothing special about phones that deserves special consideration.

I wonder if the battery can be smaller if you can easily bring a few extra. My cameras have very small ones 700mah-ish specially when compared to the size of the camera. It is never a real issue. Just bring more batteries. Say phones have 4-5 times the mah and last 8 to 30 hours. You could slide on a battery with a bump and get 60 hours or a slim one with only 4-15 hours. That will eventually outperform the degrading cell.

I don't know where innovation is at but I imagine we could see new batteries with much better size to power ratio. If you already have the newest phone it would be a no-brainer.

[bmicraft]

The Galaxy S5 had a replaceable battery and IP67 10 years ago. It's not that hard.

[hulitu]

> reduce the effectiveness of waterproofing

If your phone has a hole (usually the charging port), the water will get in.

[vincnetas]

well, batteries must be also certified. so yeah if you buy black market discarded faulty batteries on random site, you can expect a problem. of course catching all these sellers of crappy fake certified batteries becomes the responsibility of market regulator, but that is their job as far as i can tell.

[ceejayoz]

> You would double or triple the lifespan of a ton of things.

Until they get dropped in the toilet.

Phones have gotten more waterproof as the batteries have gotten more permanently secured (not to mention induction charging). It's not a spurious correlation.

[jcgl]

The Samsung Galaxy S5 was IP67, with a fully toolless, user-replaceable battery (not to mention SIM card!).

That was back in 2014.

[madmask]

The battery of my diving torch is removable.. and of course doesn’t flood after 40 meters dives. This is a marketing excuse

[smarkov]

I'm not denying that there are some trade-offs, but I'm also not strictly speaking about phones here. Think electric toothbrushes, trimmers, Bluetooth speakers and the other endless amounts of electric things with rechargeable batteries that don't have the space constraints of a phone.

[e12e]

> Phones have gotten more waterproof

Tell that to the Ericsson t888 I washed (phone turned on) for a full cycle at 60C. After drying out for a few days it worked fine.

[postepowanieadm]

EU cant deal with single use e-cigarettes! Just think about how much e-waste they generate, for years nothing has been done about it. On the contrary: when recently Polish government considered banning them, they have stepped down because it would require notifying the EU(also "lobbying" aka corruption. One person present at the meeting when the matter was discussed couldn't recall on whose behalf he was there, but treated to sue if called a lobbyist).

[raverbashing]

I think Ireland has banned single use vape devices, seems like Poland had a different issue

[guerrilla]

You have the money. Buy things with replacable batteries. Fairphone 5, Google Pixel, Saksung Galaxy Xcover. These are all good phones. Encourage your friends to get them too. Let's make it the norm. Boycott locked-down unfixable hardware.

[portaouflop]

Often for me not the hardware was the bottleneck but the software - I had some old phones which became unusable because half of the essential software would not work anymore on the outdated android versions - same with iPhone, it gets updates for some years but if I can’t use e.g my banking app the phone is useless - these ungodly apps are half the reason I am forced to use this machine in the first place…

[openplatypus]

My Google Pixel has nothing replaceable... At least not by end user.

After checking service manual I am sure I won't be doing anything on it myself.

Sure, if battery dies, I service it with a 3rd party.

I wish I got Fairphone.

[ktosobcy]

The problem is the same as with "compact" phones - there are only few models so the choice is very limited and they are usually "so-so" (or have other issues).

The problem is, as always, with marketing - it's easier to sell "this is newer/better because <x> parameter is higher" [1] so we have gigantic phones with more megapixel cameras and higher waterproof rating though I'd argue that more people would be affected by dying battery than by lack of waterproofing… (no data to back it though). Anecdotally I were changing all my previous phones because the batter was dying and never in 20 years had issue with phone being sumberged...

Those are just dumb trends :/ I would love for a phone that has lumia design - it was polycarbon/rubbery, had easy access to battery and yet was super sturdy and I didn't feel the need to buy yet another cover because, to bump the margins, whole effin world is going "premium".

Same with cars so you have less and less choice for a normal sized city-car and everything has to be "crossover" or "SUV"... ffs...

[alkonaut]

Which devices don’t have replaceable batteries? No iPhone had a battery that couldn’t be replaced for maybe 10% or the purchase cost or so. Why do people consider a smartphone with a degraded battery ”e-waste”? Just go have the battery replaced?

[AdrianB1]

My Asus ZenFone 3 - I cannot find a battery for it, so it is now permanently connected to an USB cable doing other stuff than being a mobile phone.

There is a huge diversity in phone and battery models, it is easy to find a replacement for some, difficult or impossible for others.

[oulipo]

At least for e-bike battery, that's precisely what we're building at https://get.gouach.com :)