Just to clarify on what actually happened the first time:
He wasn't trying to protest the dress code or make a scene, it wasn't on his mind at all. He had been out for an appearance with a sponsor during a break, then came back to the venue for the next round, and didn't notice that he was wearing jeans and it didn't cross his mind that that would be a violation.
The controversy was about exactly how the penalty is imposed. The rule is a fine for the first violation and disqualification for multiple. It wasn't clear if his appearance for the day would count as one violation (so he could just incur the fine and wear correct clothing tomorrow), or if each round would be a separate violation. It also wasn't clear if he could play while in violation or would be excluded from each round until he changed. Precedent from other events wasn't clear for either of these. He thought he was told he could continue, but then FIDE said he would be excluded from each round until he changed, and then he said f--- it and withdrew entirely.
Also, what he withdrew from was the Rapid tournament. He is now joining the Blitz event - a separate tournament at the same venue following the rapid.
This is very good context. I've seen this poorly reported across news outlets and social media, and everyone seems to be spinning this as a discussion about whether jeans should be permitted and whether Magnus is acting like a diva.
I'm actually a little disappointed that he returned after a dress code change, because the way I see it, the problem was never the dress code itself, but how it was enforced. The rules say that you can be removed from the tournament in cases of gross misconduct. But there was nothing even close to gross misconduct here. Banning him from playing was just the arbiter power tripping.
People keep saying that the arbiter was just enforcing the rules. Yes, he was enforcing the rules, but he wasn't "just" enforcing the rules. He was using one of the heaviest sanctions for the most minor infraction.
Lots of sports have dress codes. Having jeans matching jackets isn't more stupid than let say only "white or blue" gis in Judo, or only-white attire in some tennis tournaments. It's part of the folklore and many people are attached to traditions.
There are also many precedents of athletes challenging the dress-code, I can think of Serena Williams at French Tennis Open.
Tradition? I have no idea. But many events come with a dress code, and in many sports it is pretty strict even though it does not neccessarily have to be. I can see it both ways - the way you dress have nothing to do with how you play. But on the other hand, if there is supposed to be a certain atmosphere and mood at the event, a dress code is not unheard of.
I recall when Kenya (?) wanted to play with sleeveless jerseys in the FIFA World Cup, similar to have like they have in basketball. That did not work out - they had to add sleeves in short order.
It’s to throw out people coming in tank tops. They don’t have a long list of donts. They have a short list of do’s. Do wear formal clothing like a dress coat and dress pants.
> What’s the deal with the overly strict dress code in the first place?
Some organisations have a great deal of cultural inertia
If I start a club that requires all members to wear red trousers, then people who hate red trousers won't join, while people who love them will join in great numbers.
Members who are ambivalent about red trousers won't feel comfortable enforcing the rules, so they won't take the junior positions of power that lead to senior positions of power.
I'm pretty sure this is why London still have some private members' clubs that will insist on all men wearing a tie.
Old people rarely like to see things change from what they deemed 'acceptable' in their life. As people get older, most people tend to become more 'conservative' in their view of how things are changing. It is usually much worse in people of means, who are the people that have the money and connections to be FIDE or govt or business leaders, in other words: 'money people'. All such positions involve much politicking, which always involves ingratiating their own views on how the situation should be presented and seen.
Those sorts of people are always superfluous inefficiencies that gum up progress. The sooner we remove them from positions of influence, the sooner we can begin making this world a better place for one and all.
Lots of players have problems with FIDE, who act like they own the game of chess. Magnus is simply the only one who can afford to push back.
How the situation was handled is unbelievable. Unlike FIDE, players are there to work and concentrate. Telling people to change between games is just insulting.
The smugness of Sutovsky (FIDE "CEO") and the chief arbiter in the interviews on the topic is off the charts. Anand was more diplomatic, but also a raging bureaucrat.
I presume that Dvorkovich (FIDE president) and the sponsors had a stern talk with several FIDE people.
It does look to the public like Magnus got his will like a three-year-old, but there are more issues behind the scenes. It is good to see a victory over the cancel bureaucracy and some return to normalcy.
This is not about dress code--it's about inconsistent enforcement and the letter of the rules. Zaven Andriasian was wearing jeans on the same day. Nepo was fined for wearing a jacket [0].
FIDE confirmed that his outfit was appropriate and the arbiters did not exercise discretion. Essentially, it's an argument between the spirit and letter of the rules. Magnus agreed he'd made a mistake, but wanted to change for tomorrow rather than in-between rounds so he did not lose concentration. He was removed from all pairings for not changing immediately.
The other aspect people have been citing is that Magnus wants to play Freestyle Chess and faster time formats. But FIDE has been very unsuccessful in trying to hold a Freestyle Chess tournament. FIDE is very reliant on Magnus to draw in sponsors, and yet he does not seem to be getting what he wants regarding WCC changes (see his 2014 letter), Freestyle Chess, or faster time formats.
The title is slightly misleading. He did not rejoin the World Rapid, he rejoined the World Blitz. Same venue/organizers, but the standings/results are separate.
I don't know all the history, but Magnus comes off as above the game.
“I am playing at least one more day here in New York and, if I do well, another day after that,” Really? And I saw another quote that said "f*k you"
Whatever his frustrations are with the governing body, the above are unacceptable behavior. I don't understand why they need to bend over backwards and modify the rules and mollify him.
He has also accused another player of cheating, after he lost, then he settles out of court. And he doesn't want to participate in the world championship, but chooses to make comments about the quality of games.
> “I am playing at least one more day here in New York and, if I do well, another day after that,” Really?
This is taken a bit out of context. Day 1 is a qualification phase. Only the top 8 after that ends up playing on day 2. Saying «I will play two more days» would be more arrogant since it would imply he thinks he would easily be top 8.
EDIT: It could however be considered a subtle criticism of the format. Previously there were two days with 10-11 games per day. With the new qualification system you’re suddenly more dependent on having a good first day. Many players have expressed that they thought it was more fair to have more games over two days.
Magnus can afford to skip any tournament he wants, but if doesn't participate, the tournament is a much worse one. One could argue a tournament where the best in the game doesn't want to participate is a lower level one.
Top comment in a similar recent thread [0] sums it up nicely:
> The context in which this happened matters a lot.
> There have been tensions between the FIDE organization and top players like Carlsen since the latter have been promoting an alternative chess organization around Freestyle chess (aka Chesss960), which has slightly different rules.
> I.e. this is less about "dress code enforcement" and it is more about "Carlsen is fed up with the FIDE organization in general".
> Sven Magnus Øen Carlsen[a] (born 30 November 1990) is a Norwegian chess grandmaster. Carlsen is a five-time World Chess Champion, five-time World Rapid Chess Champion, the reigning seven-time World Blitz Chess Champion and the reigning Chess World Cup Champion. He has held the No. 1 position in the FIDE world chess rankings since 1 July 2011 and trails only Garry Kasparov in time spent as the highest-rated player in the world.[1] His peak rating of 2882 is the highest in history. He also holds the record for the longest unbeaten streak at an elite level in classical chess at 125 games.[2][3]
Magnus is a giant and a celebrity in the chess world. It would be like hosting the G7 but disinviting the US from the meetings because Trump wore a sweater.
[+] [-] vikingerik|1 year ago|reply
He wasn't trying to protest the dress code or make a scene, it wasn't on his mind at all. He had been out for an appearance with a sponsor during a break, then came back to the venue for the next round, and didn't notice that he was wearing jeans and it didn't cross his mind that that would be a violation.
The controversy was about exactly how the penalty is imposed. The rule is a fine for the first violation and disqualification for multiple. It wasn't clear if his appearance for the day would count as one violation (so he could just incur the fine and wear correct clothing tomorrow), or if each round would be a separate violation. It also wasn't clear if he could play while in violation or would be excluded from each round until he changed. Precedent from other events wasn't clear for either of these. He thought he was told he could continue, but then FIDE said he would be excluded from each round until he changed, and then he said f--- it and withdrew entirely.
Also, what he withdrew from was the Rapid tournament. He is now joining the Blitz event - a separate tournament at the same venue following the rapid.
[+] [-] techwizrd|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] munch117|1 year ago|reply
People keep saying that the arbiter was just enforcing the rules. Yes, he was enforcing the rules, but he wasn't "just" enforcing the rules. He was using one of the heaviest sanctions for the most minor infraction.
[+] [-] latexr|1 year ago|reply
> Those deviations "may, in particular, include appropriate jeans matching the jacket", the new rules state.
> (…)
> "Special assistants" will be on hand to help judges decide whether players' outfits are acceptable, according to Mr Dvorkovich.
This whole saga is so unbelievably stupid. What’s the deal with the overly strict dress code in the first place?
[+] [-] yodsanklai|1 year ago|reply
There are also many precedents of athletes challenging the dress-code, I can think of Serena Williams at French Tennis Open.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/16/sport/serena-williams-ico...
[+] [-] mongol|1 year ago|reply
I recall when Kenya (?) wanted to play with sleeveless jerseys in the FIFA World Cup, similar to have like they have in basketball. That did not work out - they had to add sleeves in short order.
EDIT: It was Cameroon in the Africa Cup. Link: https://www.puma-catchup.com/africa-cup-perfect-stage-scanda...
[+] [-] nashashmi|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] netdevphoenix|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] endoblast|1 year ago|reply
Double denim?
[+] [-] michaelt|1 year ago|reply
Some organisations have a great deal of cultural inertia
If I start a club that requires all members to wear red trousers, then people who hate red trousers won't join, while people who love them will join in great numbers.
Members who are ambivalent about red trousers won't feel comfortable enforcing the rules, so they won't take the junior positions of power that lead to senior positions of power.
I'm pretty sure this is why London still have some private members' clubs that will insist on all men wearing a tie.
[+] [-] aczerepinski|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] sys_64738|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] Loudergood|1 year ago|reply
Otherwise you get comedy like this at a Magic the Gathering tournament. (warning lots of plumbers crack)
https://imgur.com/a/grand-prix-richmond-crackstyle-SjcgE
[+] [-] MrMcCall|1 year ago|reply
Those sorts of people are always superfluous inefficiencies that gum up progress. The sooner we remove them from positions of influence, the sooner we can begin making this world a better place for one and all.
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] inband|1 year ago|reply
How the situation was handled is unbelievable. Unlike FIDE, players are there to work and concentrate. Telling people to change between games is just insulting.
The smugness of Sutovsky (FIDE "CEO") and the chief arbiter in the interviews on the topic is off the charts. Anand was more diplomatic, but also a raging bureaucrat.
I presume that Dvorkovich (FIDE president) and the sponsors had a stern talk with several FIDE people.
It does look to the public like Magnus got his will like a three-year-old, but there are more issues behind the scenes. It is good to see a victory over the cancel bureaucracy and some return to normalcy.
[+] [-] techwizrd|1 year ago|reply
FIDE confirmed that his outfit was appropriate and the arbiters did not exercise discretion. Essentially, it's an argument between the spirit and letter of the rules. Magnus agreed he'd made a mistake, but wanted to change for tomorrow rather than in-between rounds so he did not lose concentration. He was removed from all pairings for not changing immediately.
The other aspect people have been citing is that Magnus wants to play Freestyle Chess and faster time formats. But FIDE has been very unsuccessful in trying to hold a Freestyle Chess tournament. FIDE is very reliant on Magnus to draw in sponsors, and yet he does not seem to be getting what he wants regarding WCC changes (see his 2014 letter), Freestyle Chess, or faster time formats.
0: https://x.com/lachesisq/status/1872736455132676251
[+] [-] upghost|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] mmmore|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] willvarfar|1 year ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42527572 338 points | throwup238 | 3 days ago | 423 comments
[+] [-] deshpand|1 year ago|reply
“I am playing at least one more day here in New York and, if I do well, another day after that,” Really? And I saw another quote that said "f*k you"
Whatever his frustrations are with the governing body, the above are unacceptable behavior. I don't understand why they need to bend over backwards and modify the rules and mollify him.
He has also accused another player of cheating, after he lost, then he settles out of court. And he doesn't want to participate in the world championship, but chooses to make comments about the quality of games.
[+] [-] judofyr|1 year ago|reply
This is taken a bit out of context. Day 1 is a qualification phase. Only the top 8 after that ends up playing on day 2. Saying «I will play two more days» would be more arrogant since it would imply he thinks he would easily be top 8.
EDIT: It could however be considered a subtle criticism of the format. Previously there were two days with 10-11 games per day. With the new qualification system you’re suddenly more dependent on having a good first day. Many players have expressed that they thought it was more fair to have more games over two days.
[+] [-] redleader55|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] thatswrong0|1 year ago|reply
Changes wouldn't happen to governing bodies if people didn't resist.
[+] [-] scrapcode|1 year ago|reply
> The context in which this happened matters a lot.
> There have been tensions between the FIDE organization and top players like Carlsen since the latter have been promoting an alternative chess organization around Freestyle chess (aka Chesss960), which has slightly different rules.
> I.e. this is less about "dress code enforcement" and it is more about "Carlsen is fed up with the FIDE organization in general".
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42527572
[+] [-] Invictus0|1 year ago|reply
Magnus is a giant and a celebrity in the chess world. It would be like hosting the G7 but disinviting the US from the meetings because Trump wore a sweater.
[+] [-] weMadeThat|1 year ago|reply
PR. Come on.