[aguaviva]

This was going all fine until we started fucking with that Red Line.

Except that's not what happened.

It's just a soundbite you heard somewhere, but has no basis in reality.

You can follow this thread, if of interest:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42598151

[slt2021]

False, you are spreading blatant lies. Russians were pretty transparent about reasons. Budapest Memorandum as of 2003 guaranteed Ukraine sovereignty in exchange for nuclear disarmament, provided that Ukraine stays neutral state.

Ukraine decided to break the Budapest Memorandum by seeking the NATO ascension, and GW Bush promised them NATO in 2008, and then in 2014 CIA/State Department organized a coup (just a mere month before official elections) and pro-western puppet leader was put in charge (search Victoria Nuland's call where she decided to appoint pro-western Yatsenyuk as Prime Minister after the coup) who decided to seek EU and NATO membership.

Thus, Ukraine effectively nullified the neutrality clause of the Budapest Memorandum.

So it was Ukraine that walked back from Budapest Memorandum by giving up neutral status, that nullified the territorial sovereignty guarantees given by Russia.

if you think about it, it kinda makes sense. Russia can tolerate friendly and aligned country on its border that is 70% comprised of Russian speakers and/or Russian ethnicity.

But Russia cannot tolerate NATO member on its border, the same way that USA cannot tolerate Canada/Mexico that are in military alliance with Russia/China.

Ask yourself, what would USA do if tomorrow Canada/Mexico decided to join exclusive economic and military alliance with China ?

[mopsi]

The Budapest memorandum was signed in 1994 and not 2003, it sets no neutrality requirements on Ukraine, nor was there a coup in Ukraine, nor was Ukraine scheduled to have any elections in 2014, nor was or is Ukraine in the process of joining NATO, and nor has Mexico anything to do with it all.

Did you generate your post with an AI tool? It's such a strange collection of undisputably incorrect statements, from the wrong year of the Budapest memorandum to the invalid reference of upcoming elections in 2014.

[aguaviva]

Yatsenyuk ... who decided to seek NATO membership

In August 2014, and only after Russia invaded both the Crimea and the Donbas. In fact even after the invasion of just the Crimea (in March) his government was still playing it safe, and renouncing any intent to join NATO (Reuters, March 18):

   Ukraine's new pro-Western leadership is not seeking membership of NATO, Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk said on Tuesday, in comments intended to reassure Russia and Ukraine's large number of Russian-speakers.[0]

It only changed its tune -- was forced to change its tune -- when Russia doubled down on its "covert" intervention in the Donbas by sending armored vehicles with Russian military plates, and attempted a similar assault on Mariupol.[1] Which (unlike the events you are falsely describing) actually did tear the Budapest Memorandum (and the UN Charter) to shreds. And rendered whatever "defensive" objections Russia may have had to Ukraine's bloc status entirely moot.

[0] https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-ukraine-crisis-nato-idUKB...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas#August_2014_inva...