Gosh I love these guys for doing this. Seriously, there is some broken law here in the name of 'war powers' and frankly as a citizen it really annoys me. I understand the argument that in a time of war, extraordinary measures may be justified in order to insure the survival of the state, but neither the 'war on terror' nor the 'war on drugs' counts any more. In my opinion, these are criminal enforcement activities, not 'wars'. As such they should be fully constrained by the limits imposed by the constitution regarding due process.
I think that, as societies, we really need to reflect and debate on what counts as war. The US hasn't been involved in a total war, which I define as one in which both sides face the prospect of annihilation, since WWII. Since then, the West has been involved in countless conflicts that are, to varying degrees, removed from an existential threat. If we are truly fighting for survival, then I'm okay with forgoing certain rights in service to that fight. If it's just minor armed conflicts in service of political goals, as most wars since WWII have been, I'm not.
- EFF is today releasing FBI-redacted briefing from a major new ongoing case
+ EFF is today releasing an FBI-redacted briefing from a major new ongoing case
My personal guesstimate is that the general American public is more aware of such dirty things than it was, say, 20 years ago and I think it is due to internet, mainly due to alternative news sources that would get the truth out because the lame-stream media would rather tell you songs about democracy and not tell you about the secrecy and anything bad the government and corporations have been doing.
These wiretappings were probably more focus on black liberation movements and "Commies" a few decades ago, then the focus has been on Muslims now that the US is not supporting Osama bin Laden type in Afghanistan (they are still propping up the regimes in Saudia etc and supporting Osama-types in Libya, Syria etc).
The shameless NYPD spied on entire Muslim community and on ordinary citizens without any probable cause, without any legal authority. Obama's Attorney General Eric Holder lied about it and the Department of (in)justice hasn't done anything to correct it.
In the wake of the New York Police Department’s spy scandal, a coalition of Muslim groups in New York announced a boycott of the Ramadan conference, which was held this morning. Ramadan, the Islamic holy month, begins later this month.
I say the government and the corporations because it's all part of the same group of people, the Chertoff guy who gave us the porn scanners for TSA used to work for the Homeland Security.
The Summers guy hired by Obama to clean up the mess was the guy who helped create the mess.
There is good money to be made in this dirty business; we must kill them because otherwise X[n] is coming to get us.
President Y[m].
we must spy on our people because otherwise X[n] is coming to get us.
President Y[m].
Where m and n vary based on the year and X = {Bloody commies, Ruskies, Terrorists, Mozlums}
and Y = {JF Kennedy 1, LB Johnson 2, Jimmy Carter 3, Ronald Reagan 4, Bush I 5, Bill Clinton 6, Bush II, B Obama}
1 Wanted to "win" the Vietnam war rather than allow them to elect Ho Chi Minh (who would have won if elections were held, as Eisenhower himself acknowledged).
2 Continued the same shit in the same and some more countries
3 Helped South Korean dictator (yes, South Korean dictator) kill a few thousand protesters
4 Helped Saddam kill Iranians with US-supplied killing machines
5 The "I will never apologize for the United States — I don't care what the facts are" President (after killing a few hundred Iranians by shooting a civilian airplane) helped kill Iraqis on the pretext of helping Kuwaitis, remember the incubator babies hoax?
https://www.google.com/search?q=incubator+babies+kuwait+hoax
What is your point? Did you just sign up another account to leave this useless comment?
Your message doesn't clarify whether you prefer wiretapping of all civilians or just Muslims. Or perhaps you love bombing civilians around the world with your tax dollars? I am not sure what your objection was, I thought I gave plenty of references to prove my point; that it is all linked together and we cannot fight one little battle for privacy separate from the so-called war on terror (or war on communism or war on whatever minority group or whatever "outside" group you would like to hate).
You can't just demand liberty and justice for some, not only because it's hypocritical but because it won't work that way.
I might be wrong but you have to enlighten me with your ideas.
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] redthrowaway|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] 01Michael10|13 years ago|reply
I am thinking of making a new donation to the EFF today to help with this great cause ---> https://supporters.eff.org/donate <--- Who is joining me?
[+] [-] c0ur7n3y|13 years ago|reply
-NSA
[+] [-] sneak|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lux|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 01Michael10|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mtgx|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tikhonj|13 years ago|reply
I wouldn't want the government to brazenly expand its powers regardless of whether I agree with the particular activity in question.
[+] [-] cpeterso|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] accountswu|13 years ago|reply
My personal guesstimate is that the general American public is more aware of such dirty things than it was, say, 20 years ago and I think it is due to internet, mainly due to alternative news sources that would get the truth out because the lame-stream media would rather tell you songs about democracy and not tell you about the secrecy and anything bad the government and corporations have been doing.
These wiretappings were probably more focus on black liberation movements and "Commies" a few decades ago, then the focus has been on Muslims now that the US is not supporting Osama bin Laden type in Afghanistan (they are still propping up the regimes in Saudia etc and supporting Osama-types in Libya, Syria etc).
The shameless NYPD spied on entire Muslim community and on ordinary citizens without any probable cause, without any legal authority. Obama's Attorney General Eric Holder lied about it and the Department of (in)justice hasn't done anything to correct it.
http://michaelcostello.blogspot.com/2012/06/wiretap-document...
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/04/shady-companies-nsa...
Shady Companies With Ties to Israel Wiretap the U.S. for the NSA
April 3, 2012
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/07/muslim-civil-rights-groups-boy...
In the wake of the New York Police Department’s spy scandal, a coalition of Muslim groups in New York announced a boycott of the Ramadan conference, which was held this morning. Ramadan, the Islamic holy month, begins later this month.
I say the government and the corporations because it's all part of the same group of people, the Chertoff guy who gave us the porn scanners for TSA used to work for the Homeland Security.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chertoff+scanners
The Summers guy hired by Obama to clean up the mess was the guy who helped create the mess.
There is good money to be made in this dirty business; we must kill them because otherwise X[n] is coming to get us. President Y[m].
we must spy on our people because otherwise X[n] is coming to get us. President Y[m].
Where m and n vary based on the year and X = {Bloody commies, Ruskies, Terrorists, Mozlums}
and Y = {JF Kennedy 1, LB Johnson 2, Jimmy Carter 3, Ronald Reagan 4, Bush I 5, Bill Clinton 6, Bush II, B Obama}
1 Wanted to "win" the Vietnam war rather than allow them to elect Ho Chi Minh (who would have won if elections were held, as Eisenhower himself acknowledged).
2 Continued the same shit in the same and some more countries
3 Helped South Korean dictator (yes, South Korean dictator) kill a few thousand protesters
http://www.villagevoice.com/2002-10-15/news/carter-hounded-b...
4 Helped Saddam kill Iranians with US-supplied killing machines
5 The "I will never apologize for the United States — I don't care what the facts are" President (after killing a few hundred Iranians by shooting a civilian airplane) helped kill Iraqis on the pretext of helping Kuwaitis, remember the incubator babies hoax? https://www.google.com/search?q=incubator+babies+kuwait+hoax
6 Continued bombing Iraq and helped kill at least half a million Iraqi babies https://www.google.com/search?q=Medeline+albright+worth+it
[+] [-] accountswu|13 years ago|reply
To the troll:aaaaaaaaaaaaaa
What is your point? Did you just sign up another account to leave this useless comment?
Your message doesn't clarify whether you prefer wiretapping of all civilians or just Muslims. Or perhaps you love bombing civilians around the world with your tax dollars? I am not sure what your objection was, I thought I gave plenty of references to prove my point; that it is all linked together and we cannot fight one little battle for privacy separate from the so-called war on terror (or war on communism or war on whatever minority group or whatever "outside" group you would like to hate).
You can't just demand liberty and justice for some, not only because it's hypocritical but because it won't work that way.
I might be wrong but you have to enlighten me with your ideas.
[+] [-] aaaaaaaaaaaaaa|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] accountswu|13 years ago|reply