[andiareso]

I don’t see the issue. You were using the TfL schematic map which is very much a form of art. I don’t think it’s unreasonable that they asked you to take that specific map down or continue with a license.

To remove the whole site because of that seems petty.

It was clearly stated in their api documentation. It’s no different than getting a license or usage rights for hosting an image or video on your site. Just because you are a hobbyist doesn’t mean you don’t have to follow the rules.

This is coming from someone who is extremely pro fair-use and right to ownership.

[darrenf]

> To remove the whole site because of that seems petty.

How have they removed the whole site? It literally says "My traintimes.org.uk is still there." at the bottom of the page. Looks like only the maps have been removed.

(Edited to add: I'm a long time traintimes.org.uk user who never even realised they had maps on the site, so consequently I am happy the whole site has not been taken down)

[rossng]

They could have easily offered a free license to use the trademark. This project wasn't harming them in the slightest. Demanding the map's removal and implying that he will have to pay to put it back up shows a lack of empathy.

[crazygringo]

No, trademarks are genuinely important because they allow consumers to distinguish between official things that an organization stands behind, versus hobbyist projects, imitators, etc.

But all the creator had to do was to remove logos and possibly change the name so there would be no confusion around whether this was an official project or not.

And it seems like the geographic map was fine, only the schematic map would have been an issue because its design is presumably specifically copyrighted and yes you would have to license that just like any other map.

The letters he received may have been heavy-handed but there's nothing wrong with the general principle of it.

[rozab]

This is particularly galling because TfL never credited or compensated the designer of the map, Harry Beck, until long after his death.

[orra]

> You were using the TfL schematic map which is very much a form of art

The site was taken down by a trademark complaint, not a copyright complaint.

[dcrazy]

Trademarks apply to artistic works that identify an entity. See the TFL roundel.

[samwillis]

It should be easy for a human at TfL to make an assessment on something like this, see the autistic and technical value, and offer a free but heavily restricted license to the developer.

But is suppose many organisations just don't give people the autonomy and authority to do such tings.

[VoidWhisperer]

For that specific map, based on what the email he got sent from TfL said, I don't think they directly have permission to issue that license - their site says people have to go through the partner who produced the schematic art to get a license

[jrochkind1]

autistic value? Trains? I see what you did there?

[polotics]

there is such a gap between hobbyist developers that do things for fun if and only if it stays fun, and consumers who will qualify as petty the reasonable decisions to pursue some other one of the very many other things-to-do-for-free that could be more fun.

don't you think?

[rad_gruchalski]

To own the trademark and defend it means having to proactively find and fight violations. So, nope.

How is the trademark holder supposed to know who they are dealing with? Because they said so? Well, in that case I know a Nigerian prince who would like to send you some money…

[ForHackernews]

This is like claiming you need to license the Mercator projection.

The TFL tube map is almost 100 years old[0] and while we can argue if industrial design is "art" the main point of the tube map is utilitarian - to help people navigate the underground.

[0] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00087041.2021.1...

[d1sxeyes]

So copyright should only apply to stuff that’s not useful?

Whatever the term of copyright should be, there’s no doubt that it was a significant endeavour to create it, and it creatively expresses the topography of London.

Your analogy doesn’t work very well I’m afraid. The Mercator projection is 500 years old, and generally speaking, you can only copyright specific works, not processes. If you want to protect a process from being used by others commercially, you need a patent, and generally patents are not as long lived as copyright.

[lexicality]

The first email asking to remove a single map from a sub-feature of the website is very reasonable.

The second email sent an hour later requesting the hosting provider immediately suspend the entire domain was not.

[jkestner]

Eh, if your complaint comes 15 years after the site is launched, and then you wait an hour before following up with a legal notice, I’d be feeling petty too.

[cryptonector]

> To remove the whole site because of that seems petty.

Maybe, but TFA explains that it's not being petty, just lack of time and resources.