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TCL's bet on screens that look like paper

117 points| rpgbr | 1 year ago |notes.ghed.in | reply

91 comments

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[+] brookst|1 year ago|reply
Article says 550 nits “doesn’t compare” to traditional screens, but that’s not true. Most desktop displays are 300-400 nits. HDR displays get up to 1000ish nits but not for the whole screen.

Phone screens are brighter because of outdoor use, but 550 is more than enough for indoor monitors.

(Not to… nit pick)

[+] itishappy|1 year ago|reply
Phone screens aren't just a bit brighter. Modern phone screens reach 1000 nits baseline and peak above 2000. Top-of-the-line models are now quoting 4600 (OnePlus 12) and 6000 (realme GT Neo 6 SE).
[+] bartvk|1 year ago|reply
You are right, but in Summmer, if you sit in close to the window, more nits is very nice.
[+] heinternets|1 year ago|reply
If you want to be able to fully present the full range of HDR you need at least 1,000 but more like 10,000 nits.
[+] WillAdams|1 year ago|reply
Other competitors in this space:

- Daylight Computer (mentioned in the article) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40456834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40754445

- Onyx Boox https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27513521

- Kobo https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40015429

- Amazon Kindle Scribe (also mentioned) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33009715

FWIW, I still haven't managed to fully replace my Newton MessagePad with a single device --- the Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ comes close, but I don't like to read books on it, and it's a bit small, so makes sketching fussy.

The Kindle Scribe is great, for reading books, but no immediacy in handwriting recognition/shape conversion, so I only use it for note-taking and sketching, but not for writing first drafts or editing texts.

The Wacom One 13 (gen one screen) attached to my MacBook is a nice fallback, and makes it convenient when I'm both taking notes or referring to a text (on my Scribe) and drawing/annotating/working on a project on my Mac.

The Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360 is awesome, but a bit large and cumbersome when folded into tablet mode --- really wish Samsung had made a replacement for my Galaxy Book 12 (the perfect thing would be a dual-screen 12" device w/ Wacom EMR, competing against the Lenovo Yogabook 9i (which I'd buy if it had Wacom EMR)).

A dual-fold 3-panel device where the outside panel was e-ink would be perfect.

[+] conception|1 year ago|reply
On an aside i have a newton i bring out to “show the kids” and it’s amazing how good it still is. Really ahead of its time.
[+] fotta|1 year ago|reply
I would add the nano-texture display option on the M4 iPad Pros (1TB+ SKUs only) and the newest MacBook Pros. I recently bought an iPad Pro with the option and it’s been really nice. I can read outside in direct sunlight with it. The downside is a slight loss in contrast and very small loss in crispness but frankly for my use cases it still looks really good. My next MBP I’ll be getting this option.
[+] taskforcegemini|1 year ago|reply
onyx boox is worth avoiding for violating the GPL
[+] manmal|1 year ago|reply
The Hannsnote 2 is another one, and (at least has been) available in the EU.
[+] comonoid|1 year ago|reply
That's TCL, not Tcl.
[+] adolph|1 year ago|reply
I thought both would be all caps but it seems that the language uses an initialism rather than an acronym. All my life I’ve been rarely typing out all caps Tcl like I’m one of the folk who use all caps MAC for the line of Apple computers.

TCL Technology Group Corp. (originally an abbreviation for Telephone Communication Limited) is a Chinese partially state-owned electronics company headquartered in Huizhou, Guangdong province.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCL_Technology

Tcl (pronounced "tickle" or as an initialism[8]; originally Tool Command Language) is a high-level, general-purpose, interpreted, dynamic programming language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tcl

[+] kencausey|1 year ago|reply
It's an auto-formatting thing that HN does to submitted titles. If you catch it soon enough you can edit the title and it will be allowed as you specify, at least that was true the last time I tried.
[+] nilamo|1 year ago|reply
Thanks, I was curious what a programming language had to do with anything.
[+] pavlov|1 year ago|reply
I have the Daylight Computer mentioned in this article.

I like it quite a lot (though the price is still high enough that it’s really an indulgence only justified if you can buy gadgets through an employer or your own company).

The physical design is the opposite of the Apple aesthetic. Instead of metal and glass and vibrant colors, it’s a dull gray rectangle with a soft-touch plastic backside and a sort of paperish texture on the display. In fact it looks and feels like a prop from Apple TV’s “Silo”. It gets a nice lived-in quality after a few months.

The display is sharp and fast and monochrome — a unique combination these days. It reminds me of the original NeXT in that sense, which is great. But the brightness and viewing angles take some getting used to. It’s really good in daylight, as the company’s name suggests. The backlight has an adjustable amber tone which goes with the retro/“Silo” vibe and is also nice in the evening.

It’s good for reading articles and books, but the monochrome display is also a surprisingly effective distraction remover filter for websites and even videos. I generally hate watching YouTube videos, but if that’s the only option to learn something, I’ll rather watch the video on the Daylight Computer.

It comes with a stylus and the display has a nice texture, but I haven’t yet got into note-taking or drawing.

[+] UncleOxidant|1 year ago|reply
When I go to their site I only see something about pre-ordering and putting down a $100 deposit. What's the price and will Libby (Library app) work on it?
[+] KerrAvon|1 year ago|reply
(The original NeXT was not very fast, due to the MO drive. Imagine VM thrashing on that thing.)
[+] pyrophane|1 year ago|reply
I really want to like the more recent devices from Boox. The display tech is just about there with their "Super Refresh." It works well enough for most apps where you are scrolling. Problem is that the software is pretty buggy and can become randomly unresponsive to touch input, which can be pretty frustrating. This has been true on the Tab Ultra, the Tab Mini C, and the Palma 2.

Still, Boox tablets are the closest to what I've been looking for: an eInk device with enough flexibility that I can read more than just books on it.

[+] UncleOxidant|1 year ago|reply
Avoid Boox. Their displays are very fragile and have a reputation for cracking even if you're careful. That happened to my Air 3 C about 3 months after I bought it. I was very careful with it - never traveled with it, only used it at home. One day after charging it I turned it on and the screen was ruined. I contacted Boox about warranty repair and they said it was my fault and I would have to pay $300+ plus shipping both ways to get it fixed. They have a reputation for blaming the customer first. I'll never buy one of their products again.
[+] IshKebab|1 year ago|reply
What exactly is paper-like about this? It sounds like it is still transmissive (they talk about brightness rather than contrast), which is just the same as any other screen no? E-ink is paper-like because it's reflective.
[+] sigio|1 year ago|reply
I have an older NXTPAPER Tcl tablet, its just a regular tft lcd screen, with a textured coating making it feel more paperlike and giving it a abti-glare coating. Its quite nice, but nowhere near epaper, so it does 60fps, but uses just as much power as regular tft displays, at the cost of some brightness
[+] mbrubeck|1 year ago|reply
It sounds like it is dual-mode / transflective, based on the description of the button that “turns the display into an e-ink format” with ”a huge increase in battery life, up to 7 days of reading.”
[+] JKCalhoun|1 year ago|reply
Before Steve Jobs shut down the Advanced Technology Group (ATG) at Apple (in the late 1990's?), some coworkers reported having had a mini-tour of ATG and were blown away by a display they saw that "looked like paper!". If my memory is correct it was a 200 DPI LCD panel. No doubt that kind of DPI back in the 90's looked like paper. ;-)

I would love to see in person what over two decades has produced.

[+] syntaxing|1 year ago|reply
I recently got a Boox Go Color 7 (I know I know, the GPL violations suck but the options are limited). I was blown away how usable the Kaleidoscope screens are. All the reviews online made them sound absolutely terrible. But having color makes the users experience much richer and enjoyable. My spouse has a Kobo Libra Color and she loves it equally as much.
[+] UncleOxidant|1 year ago|reply
If you're looking for an eink device, Avoid Boox devices. I bought an Air 3C and the display was borked 3 months after I bought it. Knowing that their displays are fragile, I never traveled with it. Only used it at home and left it on a shelf on top of a stack of books (no books on top of it). One day after charging it overnight I turned it on an found the display ruined - internally cracked, it would seem. When I wrote boox to inquire about warranty service they told me it was my fault and it was going to cost me $300+ to get it repaired (plus shipping each way).

Boox devices are very fragile and the blame the customer when the display breaks.

[+] geor9e|1 year ago|reply
Put this in the reviews to be aggregated into an X out of 5 score I can logically base decisions on. It seems irrational to let one strange experience (screen cracked for no reason sitting on a shelf) that occured to 1 out of what, 100,000? customers affect my shopping decisions. Most of the boox reviews I've come across love it for years. Sorry yours broke. When a warranty isn't honored, I've always had luck with Visa Signature or Amex doing a full refund within the first 2-3 years under their "extended warranty" benefit.
[+] goosedragons|1 year ago|reply
Vast majority of eInk devices are equally fragile. It's not unique to Boox. They use a glass substrate that's suspectible to cracking. A handful of devices use plastic like the Kobo Forma but they're a rarity. While Boox's response to you was bad, personally I've had no issues with my Boox screens despite traveling with them and having them for years.
[+] solarkraft|1 year ago|reply
FWIW, I have had a Nova 2 for years. I dropped it on stone once, a piece of the frame glass chipped out, but the display is fine.

I wouldn’t recommend it for other reasons (it’s not really good for notes, which I had hoped to get out of it).

[+] kybernetikos|1 year ago|reply
My boox note has lasted years, been to the beach and on hikes, visited multiple countries, and commuted with me most work days. No sign of fragility. In that time I've had two kindles and one kobo break.
[+] odyssey7|1 year ago|reply
Maybe Amazon will elevate its kindle game now. I just want a large-enough ePaper display for PDFs that’s just as comfortable to hold, has light so I can read it in the dark, and is waterproof. The lack of serious smartphone-like capabilities is a feature, not a bug, but the awkwardness with PDFs is a bug.
[+] inSenCite|1 year ago|reply
"It will be released first in Canada..."

Filing this under things we don't see very often (or at least since RIM went underwater).

[+] rcthompson|1 year ago|reply
Does anyone know where I can see one of these screens in person? I'm interested in potentially owning one for reading comics, graphic novels, etc., but I'd really like to see what it looks like in person before spending money on one.
[+] UncleOxidant|1 year ago|reply
> In addition to the tablet (still without price or release date)

That's the thing... I saw a discussion on reddit the other day in which people were asking about TCL NXTPaper products announced at last year's (2024) CES that still weren't available. I'm interested in one of these NXTPaper Tablet 11 Plus devices for an ereader as my Boox Air 3C's color eink display died about 3 months after buying it (now I know they have a reputation for being extremely fragile). But I wonder if it will ever actually be available in the US.

[+] hedora|1 year ago|reply
They claim they have a phone with a 7 day on, 26 day standby battery, and are charging $199 for it.

Something’s fishy.

[+] rcthompson|1 year ago|reply
It has an alternate low-power mode that only provides a few basic functions (presumably phone, text, maybe a basic web browser?). When running in "regular" Android mode it won't reach those numbers (although I believe it still claims to do better than most phones in that mode).
[+] loloquwowndueo|1 year ago|reply
It only needs to be able to make/receive calls to be called a phone, right? Why would it be more expensive?
[+] 3eb7988a1663|1 year ago|reply
You can get a Garmin inReach emergency "phone" that gives calls + text over satellite and has a 25 day battery life.
[+] Etheryte|1 year ago|reply
I mean, a classic old Nokia easily ticks all those boxes, what's fishy about it?
[+] yapyap|1 year ago|reply
it’s probably a very basic phone
[+] pianoben|1 year ago|reply
And here I thought this was about the programming language!
[+] jickes|1 year ago|reply
I honestly would love one of those "paperlike" tablets for reading and browsing the web. I have always liked kindles as well but I just prefer physically owning/reading books. Really cool tech though.
[+] rpgbr|1 year ago|reply
Not to mention that tablets are way more versatile than Kindle-like e-readers. I'm slowly replacing an aging iPad for printed articles (easier on my eyes), but I'd be tempted to get the newer TCL's NXTPAPER tablet once it arrives where I live.