[tims33]

I agree with everything you're saying, but I also can't fully square up that the equivalent American apps aren't allowed in China. This is about freedom of speech on app built by a country that has no freedom of speech. I realize this point is orthogonal, but is still an important element of the decision.

[marricks]

> also can't fully square up that the equivalent American apps aren't allowed in China

It's a chance to showcase how we're "more free" or literally just as restrictive

[Retric]

At its core free speech is about the freedom from government influence and the complaint is about government influence.

It’s one thing to allow the CCP to say whatever it wants, it’s something else to allow them the ability to manipulate of what other people can say. Allowing such a highly restricted platform seems like it hurts free speech more than it helps.

[moussess]

Here is a list on what restrictions Chinese citizens live with

- Workers in state sectors can be banned from traveling out of China https://www.scmp.com/news/article/3265503/chinas-expanding-t.... Also, non 1st tier city citizens can have a hard time getting passports, essentially a ban of travelling

- banned from using trains or airline if they are on the social credit score ban

- banned from moving money out of China for more than $50k a year

- banned from accessing foreign websites. VPN is technically illegal, and using it can get you into trouble

- banned from accessing porn

- banned from using a long list of restricted words on social media, from Winnie the Pooh, to "support Xinjiang people"

- banned from using TikTok

- banned from protesting against lost wages from state enterprises

- banned from group protesting

the list goes on and on and on

[infecto]

The US does not need to showcase anything, they are magnitudes more free in speech than mainland China. To suggest otherwise is strange.

[roca]

With or without Tiktok, the USA is nowhere near as restrictive as the CCP. The users who tried RedNote discovered that very quickly.

[mvc]

What defence remains against an autocratic government who will use that very freedom as an attack vector for their nefarious goals.

[talldayo]

The United States used to claim we had a laissez-faire market. We don't claim that anymore.

[CryptoBanker]

Or it’s a chance to be “fair”

[Cyph0n]

If stooping down to their level is the move we make, then we should immediately stop acting as if we are more “free” or democratic than China. You can’t have it both ways.

[tgma]

You realize it was a representative-democratic process chose to enact TikTok ban, so your statement is literally false on that dimension alone.

[josephcsible]

How is "everybody has freedoms except the governments of adversarial foreign countries" not more free than "nobody has freedoms"?

[tims33]

Is allowing them to impose the same kind of restrictions in their US app as they do for their own citizens good for free speech?

[talldayo]

> then we should immediately stop acting as if we are more “free” or democratic than China.

This is a histrionic response. America can still be more free and democratic than China while also enforcing a ban on their businesses.

[robterrell]

This is an incredible point. Instead of using this crisis to pressure Beijing to crack open the China market to US companies or even just get some concessions, Trump just folded to look like a champ.