[refrigerator]

This is spot on. All the smart and ambitious people I know who studied (non-software) Engineering at university in the UK have ended up going into software engineering via self-teaching or finance/consulting because the only hardware engineering career paths seem to be working for Rolls Royce in the middle of nowhere with terrible pay, or alternatively working at Jaguar Land Rover in the middle of nowhere with terrible pay

[syntaxing]

Was a MechE for 10 years here in the US and now I’m a SWE. Even here, no one cares about hardware engineers. Don’t get me wrong, you can make enough to be “comfortable”. But anecdotally, maybe 10% of MechE do design. 10% of that are paid handsomely to be in tech and are “Product Designers”. Even then, almost every tech company want to be a predominantly software company. They just happen to need hardware to execute their product. Admittedly, it’s really hard to do hardware in this economy when one country has 60% of the global manufacturing output and can copy your design, make it cheaper, and make it better. Ironically, the biggest dividing line that makes a hardware product better is good software.

[wakawaka28]

That's what happens when there is not much manufacturing in the country anymore, and everyone is encouraged to go to college. I don't know why the software industry hasn't suffered more along the same lines. Maybe the profit margins for software are higher.

[GamerAlias]

Preach. My friend is a gifted passionate Aerospace engineer (top in his specific stream at Cambridge) and basically is withering away working for the above 2 firms. The location is grim being far from others and generally far from other young exciting people. Additionally in his org, there just isn't a sense of excitement/ urgency which leaves him with little to do. Prioritising career for a career that's not there

Whilst others working in software (myself included) can have a far greater quality of life and salary working in London.

[ctz]

My impression is that top aerospace people do not now work in aerospace, but in Motorsport.

[dzhiurgis]

Wait what. Quality of life in rural UK is worse than rat race of London?

[nextos]

To some extent, this also applies to software. Except for DeepMind and a few other select places like Altos Labs, getting past £100k is hard, especially outside London. Unless you go into finance, of course. But then, you have to stick to London. Finance is like a black hole that sucks a big chunk of the mathematical, CS and statistical UK talent. They have very proactive recruiters trying to e.g. connect with Oxbridge students when they are approaching graduation.

[shermantanktop]

It’s shocking. Software engineers in the UK are treated like engineers in the US were in the 1960s. Low respect, low pay, while city boys strutting around in shiny suits snapping their fingers to get anything they want.

[retrac98]

I know plenty of engineers (web application developers) making over £100-£150k outside of London, usually in fairly low-stress remote jobs.

The pay is clearly nothing compared to the US, but I wouldn’t say it was massively hard for them to get where they are. They all have 5+ years experience at a senior level, and are otherwise just reliable, capable, low-maintenance employees, but maybe that’s rare!

[coastermug]

I am a former Mech Eng who trod this path. Started at JLR, moved by self teaching into software. Engineering in the UK felt like it moved at a glacial pace that only made sense in the days of final salary pension schemes. Senior management really struggled to get their heads around why young people were so impatient, but we were not competing for the same rewards.

[thijson]

It seems like the salaries quoted here haven't changed much in the past couple of decades. It's a shame. I know in the past there was a brain drain of talent from the UK to Canada due to the salary disparity. Here's an example:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Matthews

And in general engineering jobs in Canada don't even pay as well as in the USA.

[louthy]

> Rolls Royce in the middle of nowhere

100 miles north of London. 1 hour on the train.

> Jaguar Land Rover in the middle of nowhere

100 miles north of London. 1 hour on the train.

[pjc50]

Bit of a distance to go for a pint in the evening.

Isn't JLR in Solihull? That's two hours from London.

[esskay]

Hey now you could also go and work for Airbus...but it does mean having to go to Stevenage, as well as getting terrible pay.

[rjsw]

A friend works for Airbus Germany but at Warton, lives in a nice bit of Bolton.

[kitd]

Double whammy lol

[linhns]

In the end, it's a results business. Software just get higher pay earlier in the career so people will have to go for it.

[devnullbrain]

Been there, done that. I still frequently get sent Linkedin specs for companies where the hardware team lead is earning junior SWE money. UK junior SWE money.

[zipy124]

I even know a decent amount of people who did engineering at the top unis in the UK, only to go into audit at the big 4....

[rpep]

> working for Rolls Royce in the middle of nowhere

Most people I know who ended up at RR live in Nottingham or the Peak District and commute in to Derby. Appreciate that’s perhaps not as exciting as London but it’s hardly a shit hole up here.

Agree on pay though. I work for a different engineering conglomerate (foreign owned) and I applied for a HPC role at RR a couple of years ago and the salary was £20k lower. The disparity would be even more now.

[youngtaff]

Coventry is hardly the middle of nowhere

[twic]

Coventry is the capital of nowhere.

[eastabrooka]

Yeah but then you have to be in Coventry