[smartties]

This seems to be the case for most European countries, particularly here in France. We’re experiencing stagnation, or perhaps even a decline. Launching a product in Europe is significantly more challenging due to the market’s high fragmentation. I don’t have much hope for the future of tech companies in Europe.

[monero-xmr]

It’s exhausting trying to explain this to American leftists. They believe the UK / EU is rich, their healthcare is amazing and “free”, and no one has to work more than 35 hours a week. They visit London and Paris once in 10 years for vacation and think they understand the economic order.

[riffraff]

Both things can be true: I am happy with the European welfare state and still think there are structural problems.

UK and EU are rich, even if their economy is not doing great.

[constantcrying]

American leftist discourse about Europe is always hilarious. Apparently someone forgot to tell them that the "free" healthcare just means that it is forcibly deducted from your pay and only "free" if you don't work (Free meaning the people who work pay for you). Also they forget to mention that the actual health care system is chronically understaffed and that you should avoid the hospital if at all possible and that you might wait months to see a specialist.

Car discourse is another very good one. Apparently Europeans just really hate cars and take bikes/busses everywhere. They seem to genuinely believe that the US is the only country in the world with a car culture.

[James_K]

You should understand that the American situation is, in fact, much worse than ours in many ways. For instance, the average American pays a 40% tax rate compared to our 25% once you account for healthcare.

[CalRobert]

Ah yes, my fabulous Dutch healthcare basically consisting of being told "you're fine" and overpriced acetaminophen.

[tokioyoyo]

If it makes you feel better, I'm having a hard time to think of a single country with more than 10M people that doesn't have the same problem.

[alecco]

The problem is policy is oriented to growing GDP and not GDP per capita. Large corporations benefit from GDP growth and lower wages, so they incentivize the political class to grow the population artificially (wink-wink).

[potatosurfer]

Spain and other EU countries are growing but not really from technological development. https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/10/31/why-is-spains-e...

[realusername]

I lived and worked in both countries and I feel like the UK is in a worse situation than France nowadays.

It's hard to admit for French citizens but the EU significantly props up the French economy and reduces the structural issues of the country.

[iLoveOncall]

I have also lived in both and I agree with you. The UK is a lot worse.

At least France has some things going for it, healthcare is still good, unemployment benefits are good, etc.

The UK has literally nothing to show for.

[alecco]

Arguing about which sinking ship is going down faster.

[sebmellen]

EU meaning… Germany?

[eunos]

Well specifically for engineering-related products (both software and hardware).

How can you thrive and be competitive when your competitors in the far-east work for >60 hours per week with a solid ecosystem and generous support from the government?

I am specifically worried about the future of European engineering, unlike US you have much smaller capitals and moats. Many of the products are sustained mainly by legacy built by your predecessors.

If nothing changes then by next-generation most if not all would be devoured by chaebols, Asian Sovereign Wealth Funds, or American PEs. You'll have to work for >60 hours but they not you will enjoy the surplus. Take your poison.

Quantity has a quality of its own.

[DaedPsyker]

A few here have commented on different aspects, and they have their part to play but I agree with you, market fragmentation is the scale killer.

From an outside perspective it might appear like Europe is a true single market like the US but it isn't. Scaling to a European level isn't impossible but it is difficult. Some of that will just be difficult to do anything about, language, different cultures, etc. On the political side I'm sure there is plenty more the EU can do but I don't see the will.

[James_K]

Market fragmentation is a measurable phenomenon, as far as a language goes. The language barrier is just the cost of a translator. Is that cost prohibitively high in Europe? I hear a lot of explanations of why Europe has fewer tech companies than America, but they are almost never backed by statistics. The most obvious answer continues to be the Bretton Woods system, by which large amounts of money are funnelled into America, seemingly without reason. China inverts this flow by debasing its currency, and Europe does not.