top | item 42778759

(no title)

ludwigvan | 1 year ago

Most engineers figured out that the options/stocks of startups are worthless.

discuss

order

nostradumbasp|1 year ago

9 times out of 10 the company sells, performs a reduction in force, or goes under before they vest. 1 time out of 1000 the company is worth something and remains operable over a 5 year period.

Rules of thumb for the green engineers:

- Take salary/health insurance over stock in almost all cases.

- At some companies employees who are greener and greedier will fight/sabotage all their peers to get rid of them, is this the type of place you want to be at? Insider fighting is often a big part of why these companies fail.

- Never pay into start up equity. If a company "offers you the chance to buy their stock" after X months/years don't do it and if you do, don't put much in. Have an excuse so no one gets offended like "I am saving for a house" or something. If you're looking at a 5k minimum simply don't do it unless that is peanuts for you.

- Make sure anything offered is in writing and completely understood before joining. Lots of things are said at final stage interviews. If it isn't in writing you are not getting it. Ask questions be annoying.

- Negotiate. Its the only way you can actually get what you want. If the stocks mean nothing to you unless you get them quick, negotiate that. Start ups close doors extremely suddenly every single day.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF|1 year ago

> If a company "offers you the chance to buy their stock" after X months/years don't do it

This generalizes to a rule of thumb, "Don't accept any deal you didn't go looking for." Same as a trapdoor firewall doesn't accept any incoming connections.

Someone on the street offers to sell you a bridge, say no. You get brightly-colored letters from your credit union selling you car insurance, recycle them. Your friend wants you to buy a bowling alley with him, refuse.

It almost always works.

chamomeal|1 year ago

What about if the valuation was super low when you received the options agreement?

For instance, if I got $5,000 worth of options when the company was “worth” 1 million, is that a safe bet to buy into?

Like surely the founder would be able to sell the company for 1 million dollars instead of crashing and burning… right?

rrr_oh_man|1 year ago

> If it isn't in writing you are not getting it.

Golden words to live by.

meritage31|1 year ago

>> Most engineers figured out that the options/stocks of startups are worthless.

Also, if the startup gives you options/stocks without showing up the cap table, they are giving you a numerator and not a denominator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_table

Never trade real cash for imaginary money unless you have the facts

consp|1 year ago

And if they are not worthless in general, they are worthless for you since you will get squeezed out because funders and founders need to take everything since they are the only ones who matter or do any work (/s obviously).

whstl|1 year ago

I certainly did. I have options/stocks from 3 different companies, all vested, but zero expectation of seeing any money out of it. One of them recently went belly up and had an exit for peanuts.

I didn't go for big tech but I did pick a job on a YC startup that, while demanding, allowed me to purchase my own house and work on my own stuff in the evenings.

chamomeal|1 year ago

Your options haven’t expired since leaving those startups?

I recently left a job at a startup where I had some options vested. It would be like 6k to exercise them. I was leaning towards leaving em, and now this thread has kinda convinced me

bradlys|1 year ago

How did you manage to buy a house on your own while making just salary? Usually salary at YC startups doesn’t get past $250k and that’s not enough to afford anything in the bay.

schappim|1 year ago

We are now also seeing companies staying private much, much longer. This is tough on the employees who quite often can't offload their equity.

nejsjsjsbsb|1 year ago

Which makes FAANG + property investing + index pension/401k + other funds etc attractive. Maybe the occasional wsb style risk for fun.