[MarkPNeyer]

“Teams selecting leaders” or “randomly choosing the spokesperson” still gives rise to an explicit hierarchy, but in this case it’s not permanent and there’s a mechanism that prevents it from becoming permanent.

The idea that you can avoid hierarchy is, I think, confusing “social hierarchies with permanent places” - yes, bad, avoid that - with the _concept_ of hierarchy at all.

[red_admiral]

Yes, it's the time of year (olympiad?) when we remind ourselves that elections push power upward, then the elected push it downward.