[matthewfelgate]

When is the West going to start standing up to Russia on these cable sabotages?

[ramchip]

I highly recommend this video "A new stage of Russian hybrid warfare" from military analyst Anders Puck Nielsen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yabwyb14-BQ

Basically, Russia's goal is not so much to cut some cables but rather to create fear in order to reduce support for Ukraine. A loud public response is not necessarily in our interest because it makes their attacks more effective.

[The_Colonel]

Intimidation has been their modus operandi for a while. Assassinations which they only half-heartedly deny is another example of that.

But it feels like this has become the new normal and isn't particularly effective anymore.

[jononor]

Arguably this is exactly an example of that? There is also a sanctioning scheme on oil and various other goods. Not saying these are perfect, or even sufficient. But which measures do you have in mind?

[SideburnsOfDoom]

The article shows Sweden doing exactly that, following Finland doing same in December. So The Russia-adjacent Baltic states got the message late last year.

[ddtaylor]

Are these sabotages considered an offense worth of NATO response? If not, what is the standard there or has it not been tested with this because it's just an "Internet cable"?

[Cthulhu_]

I'm not an expert but I don't think it is, because they took place in international waters and unless there's proof to the contrary, they're done by civilian vessels. And it being done by dragging anchors makes it plausible deniability of being accidents.

It's really annoying to be honest. Makes me wish for stricter laws for international waters when it comes to undersea infrastructure.

[mstade]

One of the Swedish politicians seem to think so: https://swedenherald.com/article/hultqvist-on-the-baltic-sea...

[The_Colonel]

No, I don't think so. Or rather, what kind of response? Invoking Article 5 and then what?

It seems like just another chapter in the hybrid warfare. NATO countries can respond in other ways, more sanctions, more military support for Ukraine, undercover actions, restricting Russian vessel movement in the Baltic Sea etc.

[drawkward]

Not at least for another 4 years.

[ajuc]

I'd say it's 33/33/33 whether it was Russia, Ukraine or NATO countries that blew up Nord Stream.

Russia shut down transfers through Nord Stream months before it blew up, used lots of excuses not to re-open it (they said they need a turbine that they can't get cause sanctions - sanctions were lifted, Russia still said it won't reopen it cause "it got broken even worse").

Blowing up Nord Stream could be simply a way for Gazprom to blackmail Germany energetically without having to pay fines for missed deliveries.

[lovegrenoble]

When is the Russia going to start standing up to West on the North Stream sabotages?

[The_Colonel]

It was most likely Ukraine. Russia and Ukraine are at war.

[Cthulhu_]

Didn't they already by forcing people to pay in rubles? Anyway it's not like Russia has any negotiating powers with the rest of europe at the moment, we're not buying their gas until they withdraw and repatriate.

[vkou]

I think undersea infrastructure has been a bit of a free-for-all since Sep 26th, 2022.

[willvarfar]

Whilst the blowing up of the nordstream pipelines was a very well known example, there were prior damage by ships to undersea infrastructure.

For example, on Jan 7th 2022 the undersea cable between Spitsbergen and Norway was severed. https://www.twz.com/43828/undersea-cable-connecting-norway-w... Turns out a Russian trawler had gone back and forth over the cable until it broke. This was covered in a nordic languages documentary called skuggkriget ('shadow wars') https://www.svtplay.se/uppdrag-granskning-skuggkriget

Of course history of this goes all the way back to the very first thing the British did in WW1 was to cut the telegraph cables between Europe and America https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42367551

[The_Colonel]

And all land is free-to-take since Feb 24th, 2022.

Ultimately, international law has to be enforced by someone. Russia broke it many times before NS2 blew up, it's not like they were holding up before.