[pen2l]

While all of this is true, that DeepSeek wouldn't be here were it not for the research that preceded it notably Google's paper, then Llama, and ChatGPT which they're modeled after, its release still did something profound to their psyche, the motivation and self-actualization this instills to the Chinese. They witnessed the power of their accomplishments: a side-hustle project knocked off an easy trillion. This is only egging them on and will serve to ramp up their efforts even more.

Separately, I do think that now that the Chinese leadership saw this, that they have the chops to pull this off and then some, they are probably going to rein in future innovations; they'll likely demand that the big future discoveries remain closed-sourced (or even unannounced/unpublicized).

[tedivm]

OpenAI wouldn't be here without the work that Yann Lecun did at Facebook (back when it was facebook). Science is built on top of science, that's just how things work.

[wrasee]

Yes, but in science you reference your work and credit those who came before you.

Edit: I am not defending OpenAI and we are all enjoying the irony here. But it puts into perspective some of the wilder claims circulating that DeekSeek was able to somehow complete with OpenAI for only $5M, as if on a level playing field.

[blackeyeblitzar]

Is that really true? If anything OpenAI was dependent on the transformers paper from Google from Ashish Vaswani and others. LeCun has been criticizing LLM architectures for a long time and has been wrong about them for a long time.

[zbendefy]

Also without the "attention is all you need" paper from google

[nicce]

We wouldn't be here discussing if nobody invented internet... nor these models had training data at all.

> Separately, I do think that now that the Chinese leadership saw this, that they have the chops to pull this off and then some, they are probably going to rein in future innovations; they'll likely demand that the big future discoveries remain closed-sourced (or even unannounced/unpublicized).

How do we know that this is not already happening with OpenAI/Meta and the U.S. government at some level? The concept of power is equal, whether we wanted it or not. We don't have to pretend to be "better" all the time.

[openrisk]

> they'll likely demand that the big future discoveries remain closed-sourced

Depends on whether they want these tools to be adopted in the wider world. Rightly or wrongly there is a lot of suspicion in the West and an open source approach builds trust.

[hn_throwaway_99]

> While all of this is true, that DeepSeek wouldn't be here were it not for the research that preceded it (notably Llama), and ChatGPT which they're modeled after...

If the allegation is true (we don't know yet), then what you've written perfectly proves the point everyone is making. ChatGPT wouldn't be here if it weren't for all the research and work that preceded it in terms of tons of scrapable content being available on the Internet, and it's not like OpenAI invented transformers either.

Nobody is accusing DeepSeek of hacking into OpenAI's systems and stealing their content. OpenAI is just saying they scraped them in an "unauthorized" manner. The hypocrisy is laughably striking, but sadly nobody has any shame anymore in this world it seems. Play me the world's tiniest violin for OpenAI.

[dismalaf]

Don't forget all the research that came before OpenAI and ChatGPT...

[stravant]

Yes, and what does preceding research do? Get followed by more research building on it.

[dylan604]

Standing on the shoulders and it's turtles all the way