--most people working in Amazon warehouses are employed by temporary staffing firms, not Amazon
--most people working in Amazon warehouses don't come anywhere near 3 years of tenure before quitting or being fired
--reimbursement is limited to $2,000/year for four years, while $5,000/year is pretty much the minimum direct cost to take such programs
--the program is limited to full-time workers, so only those who can take classes while working full-time and mandatory-or-you-get-fired overtime can partake
The number of warehouse workers eligible for this is nearly zero. Might even be precisely zero.
First of all, you are talking out of your ass. You make many claims, but provide no sources.
Amazon has many thousands of warehouse associates. Most of the temporary workers, however come in during the holidays - that's no surprise.
Amazon is experiencing tons of growth right now, the last thing they want to do is keep having to rehire associate workers. If you are good, there is no reason why they should fire you.
A reimbursement of $2,000/ year may not seem like much, but it goes a long way if you are in a state school or in community college. A lot of the associate workers are making somewhere around $12-$14/hour, so this ends up helping them a lot more than you realize.
I left Amazon just over a year ago, but have just over two years as a manager across three of their large fulfillment centers. I can offer some perspective:
-- Yes, the ratio of temp associates to "blue badge" Amazon associates can be 50/50 at best during off-peak (though trending worse as Amazon expands) and during peak season temps will be 80% of the workforce. And yes, temps get absolutely nothing from Amazon as far as benefits. This is in stark contrast to a company they own - Zappos.
-- Very few tier 1 associates made it three years. Very, very few. On my last shift of about 50 associates, I can only think of about 5, and this was one of the older fulfillment centers.
-- Maybe it has changed, but there was no option to work part-time. Standard shifts are 10 hours. Mandatory OT can be frequent off-peak and is every week during peak. I had plenty of associates that took college classes during the day (I managed on nights). They did it, but were really dragging ass at night. They got maybe two or three hours of sleep a day. Many just couldn't make their productivity goals and would eventually quit before being fired.
This initiative is what I would call a good start, and better than nothing. But as some have mentioned, the ability to move to a part-time schedule would be nice. As would a higher reimbursement amount. But maybe that will come in the future.
While I wasn't getting reimbursement, I was working roughly 60 hours a week on the assembly floor at Dell while taking a full load of classes (12 credit hours). Before any financial aid or assistance, tuition and books at the community college I was going to was around 1800 a semester. After financial aid, it was around 800. This is a great program for those who cannot live on financial aid alone (need to work for whatever reasons) and have the drive to better themselves. I didn't get a degree, but not because I was working so much.
I suppose it's better than nothing, the full time thing is the kicker, I'd say a year and part time should suffice to weed out people that are just getting hired for college money. Plus, if they quit before the schooling is up they wouldn't keep getting tuition.
On a side note, does anyone know of other workplaces that offer a tuition payment program? --- A google search later and I actually find this site http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/746434/
I does look like Amazon isn't really doing that much of an amazing thing here though.
--Amazon has more than 15,000 full-time employees at 69 different warehouses (fulfillment centers) in the United States and of course the program is limited to full-time employees. What industry or job have you ever seen a employee working 20/hrs work week getting benefits?
"During summer heat waves, Amazon arranged to have paramedics parked in ambulances outside, ready to treat any workers who dehydrated or suffered other forms of heat stress. Those who couldn't quickly cool off and return to work were sent home or taken out in stretchers and wheelchairs and transported to area hospitals. And new applicants were ready to begin work at any time."
I had the same thought, but I hopped over to the web site of the local community college and did some arithmetic. It turns out that $2,000 per year will easily cover four courses, two per semester, which is a decent part-time load. Cost works out to about $1,250 per year, plus a textbook rental fee of maybe $300 or so, depending on course selection.
This is plenty to get through community college and get a vocational certificate. A community college in Kansas runs $71 per credit hour, and you need 60 to get a 2-year AA degree. That's just over $2000/yr for the program.
Judging from this news article[1], it seems like there aren't many warehouse workers that 1) work there full-time, 2) have worked for 3 years, and 3) have the free time to pursue a degree.
Then again, the money may be targeted towards warehouse managers, who Amazon could see as potential higher-ups in the main organization if they had formal training.
While some may argue this is not much in regards to tuition, this can get you VERY far in a community college. See this tuition graph here: http://www.maricopa.edu/about/?tuition
I went to Maricopa community colleges and I had better instruction there than I had at the big schools. The best teachers I had were at community college.
So while some argue its not much, its almost enough to cover your tuition for a year at a community college.
If someone has the drive, they'll go do it and take advantage of the program.
I absolutely agree. I attended College of the Albemarle for two years before transferring into UNC-Chapel Hill.
The teaching quality at COA was astoundingly much higher at COA than at UNC.
At UNC most of my classes, even at the higher level, were taught by graduate students who had clearly received little to no instruction on how to effectively teach. They were there to learn and research, not to teach.
At COA my classes were taught by professors with a graduate degree in the field (usually a PhD) who were dedicated to the art of teaching. They were there to teach, not to research.
Of course higher education should be dedicated to research and expanding our knowledge, but that doesn't mean that they are good at sharing the basics.
I'm a grad student at the University of Arizona, and many of my students say they prefer math / science classes from community colleges precisely because so little real teaching happens in lower division classes at the U of A.
For a company who has repeatedly come under fire for hellish work conditions in their warehouses, a tuition reimbursement program seems like a rather pathetic PR nod. What hourly employee of theirs is going to have the time and 3 year commitment to earn this reward? Never mind the fact that most of their employees are temps from external agencies.
"repeatedly"? Source? I've worked in Amazon warehouses and they are far and above any other workhouse job in terms of both safety, pay and workload required. Granted, I only worked at 2 different Amazon warehouses so my sample small is probably smaller than yours.
This program only covers inexpensive two year community college degrees, and only for a small number of subjects.
The subject limitation I can understand, it's not unreasonable for the employer to lock out degrees that they feel might not directly benefit the company.
But the two year degree restriction, which locks out all serious degrees and universities, has no justification other than being incredibly cheap on reimbursements. It would be better to have nothing at all since community college tuition isn't that expensive to begin with. If I was there I'd interpret this limitation as more of an insult than anything, and I have no doubt that many there will see it the same way once they look into the details.
In all fairness, allowing people who are unhappy, in a first warehouse job, or in skilled occupations to train themselves out of their unhappiness is a very novel and extremely favourable idea.
This is like saying, it's not you, here's a chance, take your time, we'll help you and then move on when you are ready. I wish every company did that... It is way better than laying you off and even more superior to keeping you in a job you resent and do just because you need to pay the bills...
"Unlike traditional tuition reimbursement programs, we exclusively fund education only in areas that are well-paying and in high demand according to sources like the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, and we fund those areas regardless of whether those skills are relevant to a career at Amazon. In addition, the Amazon Career Choice Program will pay tuition and fees in advance rather than reimbursement after the completion of the course."
That is /really interesting/ I mean, why? from an employer's perspective, it seems like you'd keep your low-skilled employees longer if you helped them pursue their dream of, you know, something unemployable. (I mean, assuming they are going to learn something that doesn't help amazon, amazon keeps people longer if they learn something that isn't in demand.)
I find it's kinda cheap. 2000$ per year... looks more like recruitment marketing without too much commitment, than an actual initiative for the well-beings of the employees.
I like to think "do things right, or don't do them". In that case, I'd prefer if Amazon would go all the way and give maybe, 5..8k$, or give nothing at all.
2k$ a year, that's really not much. I like the initiative, I was reading it and thinking "Hum, this is interesting and nice" until I got to the "huh what?" of the 2k$ line.
[+] [-] jellicle|13 years ago|reply
--most people working in Amazon warehouses are employed by temporary staffing firms, not Amazon
--most people working in Amazon warehouses don't come anywhere near 3 years of tenure before quitting or being fired
--reimbursement is limited to $2,000/year for four years, while $5,000/year is pretty much the minimum direct cost to take such programs
--the program is limited to full-time workers, so only those who can take classes while working full-time and mandatory-or-you-get-fired overtime can partake
The number of warehouse workers eligible for this is nearly zero. Might even be precisely zero.
[+] [-] laluser|13 years ago|reply
Amazon has many thousands of warehouse associates. Most of the temporary workers, however come in during the holidays - that's no surprise.
Amazon is experiencing tons of growth right now, the last thing they want to do is keep having to rehire associate workers. If you are good, there is no reason why they should fire you.
A reimbursement of $2,000/ year may not seem like much, but it goes a long way if you are in a state school or in community college. A lot of the associate workers are making somewhere around $12-$14/hour, so this ends up helping them a lot more than you realize.
[+] [-] allritenow|13 years ago|reply
-- Very few tier 1 associates made it three years. Very, very few. On my last shift of about 50 associates, I can only think of about 5, and this was one of the older fulfillment centers.
-- Maybe it has changed, but there was no option to work part-time. Standard shifts are 10 hours. Mandatory OT can be frequent off-peak and is every week during peak. I had plenty of associates that took college classes during the day (I managed on nights). They did it, but were really dragging ass at night. They got maybe two or three hours of sleep a day. Many just couldn't make their productivity goals and would eventually quit before being fired.
This initiative is what I would call a good start, and better than nothing. But as some have mentioned, the ability to move to a part-time schedule would be nice. As would a higher reimbursement amount. But maybe that will come in the future.
[+] [-] ismarc|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jeremyarussell|13 years ago|reply
On a side note, does anyone know of other workplaces that offer a tuition payment program? --- A google search later and I actually find this site http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/746434/
I does look like Amazon isn't really doing that much of an amazing thing here though.
[+] [-] jberryman|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] munin|13 years ago|reply
also aren't the warehouses generally in areas of the country that don't really have schools?
yeah, I don't think they're going to be paying much out on this program ...
[+] [-] ttran4|13 years ago|reply
Where are you getting your information from?
[+] [-] eli|13 years ago|reply
"During summer heat waves, Amazon arranged to have paramedics parked in ambulances outside, ready to treat any workers who dehydrated or suffered other forms of heat stress. Those who couldn't quickly cool off and return to work were sent home or taken out in stretchers and wheelchairs and transported to area hospitals. And new applicants were ready to begin work at any time."
[+] [-] patdennis|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] glesica|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CGamesPlay|13 years ago|reply
http://www.kckcc.edu/academics/classSchedules/spring/tuition...
[+] [-] stephengillie|13 years ago|reply
[2]http://admit.washington.edu/Paying/Cost
[+] [-] Foy|13 years ago|reply
What's vocational tuition like in the States? Is $2,000/year for 4 years actually going to cover most, or any of it?
[+] [-] illinx|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kaonashi|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jvc26|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tarice|13 years ago|reply
Then again, the money may be targeted towards warehouse managers, who Amazon could see as potential higher-ups in the main organization if they had formal training.
[1] http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-f...
[+] [-] donnfelker|13 years ago|reply
I went to Maricopa community colleges and I had better instruction there than I had at the big schools. The best teachers I had were at community college.
So while some argue its not much, its almost enough to cover your tuition for a year at a community college.
If someone has the drive, they'll go do it and take advantage of the program.
[+] [-] xyzzyb|13 years ago|reply
The teaching quality at COA was astoundingly much higher at COA than at UNC.
At UNC most of my classes, even at the higher level, were taught by graduate students who had clearly received little to no instruction on how to effectively teach. They were there to learn and research, not to teach.
At COA my classes were taught by professors with a graduate degree in the field (usually a PhD) who were dedicated to the art of teaching. They were there to teach, not to research.
Of course higher education should be dedicated to research and expanding our knowledge, but that doesn't mean that they are good at sharing the basics.
[+] [-] jseliger|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notjustanymike|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WalterSear|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ybother|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lizthegrey|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] droithomme|13 years ago|reply
The subject limitation I can understand, it's not unreasonable for the employer to lock out degrees that they feel might not directly benefit the company.
But the two year degree restriction, which locks out all serious degrees and universities, has no justification other than being incredibly cheap on reimbursements. It would be better to have nothing at all since community college tuition isn't that expensive to begin with. If I was there I'd interpret this limitation as more of an insult than anything, and I have no doubt that many there will see it the same way once they look into the details.
[+] [-] HeyLaughingBoy|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mangler|13 years ago|reply
This is like saying, it's not you, here's a chance, take your time, we'll help you and then move on when you are ready. I wish every company did that... It is way better than laying you off and even more superior to keeping you in a job you resent and do just because you need to pay the bills...
[+] [-] lsc|13 years ago|reply
That is /really interesting/ I mean, why? from an employer's perspective, it seems like you'd keep your low-skilled employees longer if you helped them pursue their dream of, you know, something unemployable. (I mean, assuming they are going to learn something that doesn't help amazon, amazon keeps people longer if they learn something that isn't in demand.)
[+] [-] ehao|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hosh|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AYBABTME|13 years ago|reply
I like to think "do things right, or don't do them". In that case, I'd prefer if Amazon would go all the way and give maybe, 5..8k$, or give nothing at all.
2k$ a year, that's really not much. I like the initiative, I was reading it and thinking "Hum, this is interesting and nice" until I got to the "huh what?" of the 2k$ line.
[+] [-] orbitingpluto|13 years ago|reply
Average salary for a "Amazon.com Warehouse Associate Salary": $24,756
With 10 hour days (as mentioned in the comments) that works out to be... disgusting.
[+] [-] keeptrying|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whit537|13 years ago|reply
Because, you know, Amazon is the only player in its industry. Oh wait ...
[+] [-] rabidsnail|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] icco|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sriram_sun|13 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] davewicket|13 years ago|reply