[mkopec]

Google SafetyNet is basically swiss cheese with lots of bypass solutions for custom ROMs.

A TPM may only attest that it has received an expected set of measurements (hashes). As long as discrete TPMs or PCs with unlocked CPUs exist (w/o Boot Guard), one may simply take a TPM and replay "golden" measurements to it. Bypassing this would be trivially easy.

A TPM does not have control over execution on the CPU. It only receives data from the CPU. If you have control over execution on the CPU from the reset vector, you can just replay whatever you want to a TPM and extract secrets that way. That's why TPM backed disk encryption without configuring a PIN is insecure.

Microsoft does not have the same level of control over the entire PC ecosystem as Google has over Android. That's why it's important to support open source alternatives.

[deno]

And that’s why Play Integrity is based on hardware attestation and it is no longer a swiss cheese? And Win11 requires specifically TPM 2.0 (usually fTPM) not just any TPM.

You’re also entirely missing the point. Yes, you can bypass TPM based DRM to extract the unencrypted video (or just analog hole it) that’s why the game is to lock down the OS so you just can’t play it.

If all DVD players came with watermark detection instead of copy protection you wouldn’t have bootlegs because now every single client device needs to do the bypass instead of just once to extract unencrypted stream.

How many people have bypassed or hardware modded Playstations or Switches? This is what you’re talking about. Almost everyone will just accept it.

[mkopec]

> If all DVD players came with watermark detection instead of copy protection

That is an enormous "if". Do you think Microsoft is going to or is able to enforce this on every single software provider? Even in your Android example that's just not happening, and you can happily sideload apps. You can still develop your own apps on the same Android phone that you use for banking.

> And sorry but how many people have bypassed Playstations or Switches. This is what you’re talking about. Most people will just accept it.

People accept this with consoles because a console is a device exclusively for consuming media, and all developers apply for a devkit. I just don't see that happening in the PC space. You think Microsoft is suddenly going to dump this on third party software developers and force everyone to go through certification and to buy devkits? Without a mass exodus to Linux?

[gruez]

>And Win11 requires specifically TPM 2.0 (usually fTPM) not just any TPM.

There are TPM 2.0 dTPMs. If the conspiracy is that they want to push people towards "hardware attestation", then they're doing a pretty bad job.

>You’re also entirely missing the point. Yes, you can bypass TPM based DRM to extract the unencrypted video (or just analog hole it) that’s why the game is to lock down the OS so you just can’t play it.

There's no need to "lock down the OS" when there's already a locked down OS on the CPU itself (intel SGX), is way more secure (because it doesn't have a bazillion userspace programs and third party drivers loaded), but for whatever reason gets way less flak than TPM.