[mystickphoenix]

Agree - in my 10+ year career, I've run into exactly 2 PM's that have provided enough value to a team or project to justify their inclusion in the team or project. Both were technical enough to understand what the engineers were working on and talking about and were able to offer genuinely good suggestions.

The rest? At best they were glorified QA/QC with a large stick to hit the engineers with when the spec wasn't met exactly. And when it was, and things still failed, they still hit the engineers with the large stick and were usually promoted for it.