Vaguely related, Paul Graham tweeted "I worry Elon has no idea how much he has damaged his personal brand ...", re UK stuff and Elon posted a pages of text rant as a result. Not sure if it was written by him or Grok. I worry Elon's going a bit bonkers with drugs or whatever.
On that note, I've always wondered whether a lot of this is because of his Apartheid-era South African upbringing.
Unlike a lot of White South Africans he's English, and they were viewed as outsiders by a number of Afrikaners. Same with with David Sacks being Jewish South African and Peter Thiel being the kid of German expats in ZA.
On the other hand, Roelof Botha tends to remain outside the political limelight despite being from Afrikaner political royalty (his granddad was the Foreign Minister towards the end of Apartheid).
Maybe Musk, Sacks', and Thiel's anger and political weirdness is because they felt like the perpetual outsider no matter where they were.
Musk, Sacks, Thiel, and Botha all must have been 2nd or 3rd degree connects well before the PayPal mafia even started because their parents were all at the top of the social and economic strata among White South Africans (same handful of private schools, country clubs, etc)
So genuine question: is Musk actually addicted to drugs? Or a frequent user? I keep seeing that around, but I don't know if it's more a joke/meme or serious?
My theory is that after he bought Twitter he no longer had to abide by the rules (since he owns the thing), and combined with his wealth basically no one ever says "no Elon, you can't do that" or "you idiot, that's fucking mental". Also he has tons of people cheering him on (also in that thread). This is not helping keeping him grounded.
Teslas are good cars, but I can understand not wanting to drive around in anything associated with the current CEO.
I think about data privacy too. Every automaker sells identifiable location data. I'd normally think of Tesla as being contrarian and possibly better on privacy, but they have a history of passing around photos/videos/audio from inside the cars(!).
I really wish that Apple hadn't killed their car effort. Even without self-driving, it could've been better in many other areas.
It's such a shame. My wife has an early Model 3 from 2019 that's now over 100,000 miles. It's been a great car, no major issues and no maintenance for 6 years. 100,000 miles with nothing but new tires and windshield washer fluid is amazing to me. We're not in a position to unload our Tesla for something else right now, but without major changes at the head of the company it will likely be the last Tesla we own.
Most European EV sales that aren't Tesla are European brands like Volkswagen Group (VW, Audi, Skoda), BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Stellantis (Pueguot, Fiat, Opel), Renault-Nissan (Renault, Dacia, Nissan), or Korea's Hyundai.
The only Chinese challenger brand that has some traction is Geely via Volvo.
Getting service for a Tesla in the US can be pretty unpleasant. They’ve gone from truly excellent service to not wanting to interact with their owners and managing parts availability quite poorly.
Other than BYD, I would be very worried about getting spare parts for Chinese cars as well. Most of those car companies are in a very bad financial situation, in a country where the rest of the country is saddled with a crazy amount of shadow debt as well.
There does appear to be a social cost to driving a Tesla in blue-leaning areas these days. Nothing overt, but I've heard people who bought them without knowing who Musk is (and don't agree with him) now openly saying "never-again".
If the used Tesla market gets flooded, will there be consumer demand for those used Teslas? I suspect that most will be in suburban red-leaning areas in areas that aren't openly EV-technology hostile (something like the Dallas or Atlanta suburbs).
The problem for Tesla is that unlike the prestige effect of used luxury car sales driving new luxury car sales (i.e. BMW, Benz, etc), these cars are being disposed of because they are becoming less desirable. The target market for new Teslas seems to be shrinking among the primary populations who both want and can afford EVs.
Jackson Hole, Wyoming. One sold (Model X), one scrapped (Cybertruck). Oddly, opposite ends of the political spectrum. Both because of Musk’s new brand.
I see no reason for this to get flagged. Not every heated comment section deserves a flag, and no one is insulting each other. If it’s done by the mods, I think we deserve an explanation.
I wouldn't buy a Tesla today if it alchemically transmuted atmospheric carbon dioxide into an ounce of gold that pooped out of the front console every 1000 miles. Most of Tesla's target market does not tolerate Nazism, which Elon Musk is clearly and obviously signaling.
That doesn't even touch on his enthusiastic role in an administration threatening EU members states, some of our historically closest allies in the past century, with military action. There are great Chinese EVs, even if Musk weren't behaving this way. Of course demand in the EU is cratering.
Teslas valuation is ridiculous, their reported earnings quality is lousy, and their sales comps are deteriorating.
edit: sorry, I'm blocked from further replies and will not be engaging further. The Nazi salute was more than enough, but his Afd speech and Gray/Abramson's comments about his subsequent Auschwitz visit added to the evidence.
If hippies no longer buy Tesla, then maybe all of the MAGA will, or maybe Trump will require the USPS or the federal government or any company wanting to do business with the federal government to buy Tesla.
It was an open secret for a while, that new model Y is coming. So why buy an old one when few months in the future you can get current model and not the outdated one. Everyone is just waiting to buy new model Y. I took the risk, got old one year ago and now I am very happy, that the new one is rather facelift with couple percent better range and not a revolutionary upgrade. This would be pity. I am just wondering about price strategy, because new one is expensive at the beginning.
Yea that's not the main reason, Musk is toxic for the brand. A recent poll in Sweden saw 68% has a negative view of Musk today, up 20% in the past weeks alone.
If that were the actual reason then why did the sales drop so much in the last month? Surely the new model Y has been coming for a while now, it is difficult to imagine that it would cause a >40% drop across the board from month to month.
Rather it seems very likely that Musk is extremely toxic to the brand at the moment. He is very closely aligned to a president who is actively threatening a trade war against the EU, after all. It would be weird if EU citizens just pretended that wasn't a thing.
Worth noting that this is not a new phenomenon. Pretty much every model gets a full redesign every 6 years or so, and a “mid-generation refresh” every 3 years or so.
Well, Model Y was best selling car in the world for 2 years running. Seems a likely candidate to be again. This is probably due to flipping over inventory for the new Model Y to launch
I see this drop across Europe and Canada but the US is still alright. For some reason though, any negative news about Tesla doesn't reflect in the stock price. Wonder if the US market is propping it up, xAI nebulous or may be just musk's incessant tweeting.
Surely this can't be because the Model Y (literally the best selling car in the world) just had a refresh announced that won't be available until March?
Gee I wonder what could have caused this? I’m glad I was early to the party when we cancelled ours when Elon insinuated in a tweet there might be a valid reason for Nancy Pelosi’s husband to have been hit in the head with a hammer in his home.
Every Tesla I see now all I see is a FascistMobile.
This may get flagged as it's similar to previous articles that were flagged, but I'd just like to point out that ideological arguments pro or con about Tesla stories rarely seem to be the true reason. That is, whenever there is an article about Tesla sales slipping you see lots of "That's because all the liberal EV buyers hate Elon now!" comments. And as much as I may personally want that to be true, if you dig a teeny bit you nearly always find that economic reasons are much more plausible - e.g. as some other comments have pointed out, the rise of competition especially BYD, people holding off for the new model Y, difficulty in finding repairs, etc.
Lots of consumers like to talk a good political game but pocketbook issues always seem to take precedence when push comes to shove.
I think there are more viable alternatives now than there were a few years ago, which makes it a lot easier to choose an alternative even if the negative brand association with Elon is only a small effect.
Of course, when the viable alternatives were few or none, that negative brand association would have to be much stronger to affect buying decisions.
Maybe, but I do know that in my part of the US, I'd regular see a dozen or so Teslas on the road during my commute. Over the last few weeks, though, I've spotted a total of two. There appear to be a lot of people who have stopped driving them so much.
Yep, I think the availability of other options helps a lot, and it's important we don't lose this competition now that the head of Tesla has somehow finagled a position in government (it will continue to be insane to me every time I think about that).
I think you’re correct. Ideology rarely affects brand penetration this much.
Whenever I talk to people in Europe , they always talk about the other options. Tesla is just not competitive there as a brand.
I do hope that one outcome of this stupid tariff war here is that Canada drops the tariffs on Chinese EVs. They exist to protect US brands but we’re losing out on so many great options.
I said it before and I'll say it again. If you bought a Tesla because of Elon Musk (when he was cool), or sold a Tesla because of Elon Musk (because now he's not cool), then you're not really buying a car but social capital.
I simply buy the best car I can afford that has the ride/styling/features/quality I want. In my opinion, those that don't are out of their minds.
Not sure how associating major consumer purchases with people became a status of being cool or not. I don't really care why people like this buy and sell cars. I guess it's like Apple, everyone wanted to ride the Steve Jobs bandwagon back in the day.
[+] [-] tim333|1 year ago|reply
Conversation here: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1879785727468163505
[+] [-] stevenAthompson|1 year ago|reply
This is most of the reason I don't have a Tesla. The entire company will fold if Musk takes a bit too much ketamine and has a Roseanne Barr moment.
At that point I won't be able to get parts as the vehicles were built from the ground up to be hostile to third party repairs.
I don't want to be left holding the bag because Elon wanted to smoke a bag.
[+] [-] bhaak|1 year ago|reply
Sure, people got the brain eating bug in the past, too, but it seems nowadays it is much more common.
[+] [-] alephnerd|1 year ago|reply
Unlike a lot of White South Africans he's English, and they were viewed as outsiders by a number of Afrikaners. Same with with David Sacks being Jewish South African and Peter Thiel being the kid of German expats in ZA.
On the other hand, Roelof Botha tends to remain outside the political limelight despite being from Afrikaner political royalty (his granddad was the Foreign Minister towards the end of Apartheid).
Maybe Musk, Sacks', and Thiel's anger and political weirdness is because they felt like the perpetual outsider no matter where they were.
Musk, Sacks, Thiel, and Botha all must have been 2nd or 3rd degree connects well before the PayPal mafia even started because their parents were all at the top of the social and economic strata among White South Africans (same handful of private schools, country clubs, etc)
[+] [-] LargoLasskhyfv|1 year ago|reply
Which I've found to be hilarious btw. :-)
[+] [-] arp242|1 year ago|reply
So genuine question: is Musk actually addicted to drugs? Or a frequent user? I keep seeing that around, but I don't know if it's more a joke/meme or serious?
My theory is that after he bought Twitter he no longer had to abide by the rules (since he owns the thing), and combined with his wealth basically no one ever says "no Elon, you can't do that" or "you idiot, that's fucking mental". Also he has tons of people cheering him on (also in that thread). This is not helping keeping him grounded.
[+] [-] pragmatic|1 year ago|reply
Again not Tony Stark but Justin Hammer.
[+] [-] xnx|1 year ago|reply
I think about data privacy too. Every automaker sells identifiable location data. I'd normally think of Tesla as being contrarian and possibly better on privacy, but they have a history of passing around photos/videos/audio from inside the cars(!).
I really wish that Apple hadn't killed their car effort. Even without self-driving, it could've been better in many other areas.
[+] [-] fiftyfifty|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] jfkrrorj|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] alephnerd|1 year ago|reply
The only Chinese challenger brand that has some traction is Geely via Volvo.
You can see this in EU EV industry data as well from JATO (the EU's auto industry trade group) - https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/euro...
[+] [-] amluto|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] audunw|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] KindAndFriendly|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] danans|1 year ago|reply
If the used Tesla market gets flooded, will there be consumer demand for those used Teslas? I suspect that most will be in suburban red-leaning areas in areas that aren't openly EV-technology hostile (something like the Dallas or Atlanta suburbs).
The problem for Tesla is that unlike the prestige effect of used luxury car sales driving new luxury car sales (i.e. BMW, Benz, etc), these cars are being disposed of because they are becoming less desirable. The target market for new Teslas seems to be shrinking among the primary populations who both want and can afford EVs.
[+] [-] JumpCrisscross|1 year ago|reply
Jackson Hole, Wyoming. One sold (Model X), one scrapped (Cybertruck). Oddly, opposite ends of the political spectrum. Both because of Musk’s new brand.
[+] [-] spike021|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] dagmx|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] m_a_g|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] dang|1 year ago|reply
Edit: oh and yes, users flagged it. That's nearly always the case with submissions marked [flagged]. This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html.
[+] [-] throw16180339|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] m_a_g|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway5752|1 year ago|reply
That doesn't even touch on his enthusiastic role in an administration threatening EU members states, some of our historically closest allies in the past century, with military action. There are great Chinese EVs, even if Musk weren't behaving this way. Of course demand in the EU is cratering.
Teslas valuation is ridiculous, their reported earnings quality is lousy, and their sales comps are deteriorating.
edit: sorry, I'm blocked from further replies and will not be engaging further. The Nazi salute was more than enough, but his Afd speech and Gray/Abramson's comments about his subsequent Auschwitz visit added to the evidence.
[+] [-] mullen|1 year ago|reply
Chinese EV's do not have any moral superiority over Tesla and I would not be caught driving either.
[+] [-] hilux|1 year ago|reply
Anything you can imagine is possible.
[+] [-] schmidp|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] lnsru|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] poniko|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] WJW|1 year ago|reply
Rather it seems very likely that Musk is extremely toxic to the brand at the moment. He is very closely aligned to a president who is actively threatening a trade war against the EU, after all. It would be weird if EU citizens just pretended that wasn't a thing.
[+] [-] tshaddox|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] ChrisArchitect|1 year ago|reply
Tesla Sales Are Tanking in Europe
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42698077
[+] [-] leesec|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] yalogin|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] disqard|1 year ago|reply
Edit: looks like I'm late to the party -- it was (predictably) flagged, and (thankfully) unflagged after protests.
[+] [-] bdangubic|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] IAmNotACellist|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] bryanlarsen|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] Mistletoe|1 year ago|reply
Every Tesla I see now all I see is a FascistMobile.
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] hn_throwaway_99|1 year ago|reply
Lots of consumers like to talk a good political game but pocketbook issues always seem to take precedence when push comes to shove.
[+] [-] tshaddox|1 year ago|reply
Of course, when the viable alternatives were few or none, that negative brand association would have to be much stronger to affect buying decisions.
[+] [-] anon2549|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] RankingMember|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] electric_mayhem|1 year ago|reply
I liked it so much I got solar for my house from Tesla, along with multiple powerwalls.
Frankly, the car has been an embarrassment to take out into the world for the last three or four years.
With him outing himself as an outright nazi, yesterday I spent fifteen minutes with a heat gun, dental floss, and Goo Gone debadging my car.
I’m profoundly not ok with giving the impression that I am ok with Musk’s abhorrent behavior.
[+] [-] dagmx|1 year ago|reply
Whenever I talk to people in Europe , they always talk about the other options. Tesla is just not competitive there as a brand.
I do hope that one outcome of this stupid tariff war here is that Canada drops the tariffs on Chinese EVs. They exist to protect US brands but we’re losing out on so many great options.
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] lordfrito|1 year ago|reply
I simply buy the best car I can afford that has the ride/styling/features/quality I want. In my opinion, those that don't are out of their minds.
Not sure how associating major consumer purchases with people became a status of being cool or not. I don't really care why people like this buy and sell cars. I guess it's like Apple, everyone wanted to ride the Steve Jobs bandwagon back in the day.
This is the stuff that gets people upset?