[throw18376]

i generally consider myself an enemy of psychedelic advocates, because I think they want to make it effectively socially mandatory to do these drugs, which is really bad.

("sure, it's your choice what you put in your body, but a really enlightened person wouldn't be so frightened and closed-minded that they don't want to see what psychedelics can show them...")

of course ketamine for depression has this giant downside risk of adverse effects and psychosis, and we should talk about it more, not just sell it as a safe miracle drug.

however... safe, neutral, bland, boring well-tolerated SSRIs, also have a massive downside risk, in that they can trigger a manic episode, which in severe cases also involves psychosis.

so i find myself in the position of being glad there are different depression treatments for different people, including psychedelics and dissociatives, and hopefully we can find a way to make sure people get sorted to the treatments where they are least exposed to the tail risk side effects.

[BjoernKW]

SSRIs are by no means safe or well-tolerated. They have all sorts of severe, life-altering, mostly permanent side effects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_i...

There are countless heartbreaking stories of people who were prescribed these drugs not knowing what they were subscribing to. In many cases, the effects of those drugs are worse than the symptoms they are supposed to alleviate. With "I Don't Wanna Be Me" there's even a song by Type O Negative (from Peter Steele's own experience with Prozac) about the devastating effects SSRIs can have on a person's life.

These drugs are handed out like candy while the physicians prescribing them often point-blank deny any side effects or even attribute those to the illness they are meant to treat.

Psychedelics, on the other hand, have actually been proven to be effective for many syndromes SSRIs are commonly used for and by comparison are very safe when used with proper preparation, medical surveillance, and in the right setting.

The only reason psychedelics are still widely shunned is a Puritan attitude to human well-being: You're not supposed to feel better than the common neutral base level. Any drugs achieving that (alongside with other, more specific and intended medical effects) are maligned and ostracized.

[throw18376]

this is more or less exactly what i was trying to say. for most people SSRIs are safe, they experience manageable side effects and little health risk. psychedelics and dissociatives seem like they must be really drastic and risky. but actually SSRIs are pretty risky too, there are all these terrible low-probability outcomes.

so it's good we have all options, but ideally we'd have a better way of judging who is safest with which treatment.

[mandarax8]

You're saying this as if psychedelics cannot 'have all sorts of severe, life-altering, mostly permanent side effects'.

[mistrial9]

> The only reason psychedelics are still widely shunned is ..

no, more complicated than that..

[golergka]

> i generally consider myself an enemy of psychedelic advocates, because I think they want to make it effectively socially mandatory to do these drugs, which is really bad. > ("sure, it's your choice what you put in your body, but a really enlightened person wouldn't be so frightened and closed-minded that they don't want to see what psychedelics can show them...")

I'm sorry WHAT? I've been to many open airs and other events where MOST of the people around have been under the effect of psychedelic and in other drug-friendly places, and I have never hear manipulative shit like that ever. On the contrary, if I heard people talk about this drugs it was always "it worked for me but might be a bad experience for you", "be safe, don't take it if you're not sure" and "you can always have a great time here completely sober".

[throw18376]

i think that "we all want to get high on drugs" situations, like festivals, are actually a lot better. it's about personal choice.

when i talk about psychedelic advocates, i mean the people who think that widespread use of psychedelic drugs would massively improve mental health, make people more productive and happier, etc.