Google Maps now shows the 'Gulf of America'

[yosito]

The real news here is that GNIS has been updated with the name. It doesn't seem that Google made an independent decision to change the name. Resistance to this change would really have to happen at the government level, not the tech level. Which really seems to be the point that's being made with this whole ordeal. It's a symbolic move to demonstrate to everyone that what they say goes and that the system isn't resisting their power.

[ryandrake]

Where does it end though? If he decides tomorrow to start calling Canada "Beaverland," will all our maps change again?

[oneeyedpigeon]

> It doesn't seem that Google made an independent decision to change the name.

Isn't GNIS a US-only thing? I am not in the US, yet I am seeing "Gulf of America" in brackets after the correct name. Doesn't that suggest the decision is a bit less "independent" than you're implying?

[francisofascii]

I was under the impression the International Hydrographic Organization (IHO) defines the naming of international waters.

[Dudelander]

Like I said, loyalty test.

[ljsprague]

Good.

[diggernet]

One detail I've not seen mentioned in these discussions is that the EO specifically identifies "the U.S. Continental Shelf area bounded on the northeast, north, and northwest by the States of Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida and extending to the seaward boundary with Mexico and Cuba". I'm not sure exactly what that looks like on a map, but it's clearly focused on US coastal waters. (Which kind of makes sense, because GNIS has no naming authority outside of US borders.) But it also makes the implementation by Google Maps wrong, since a large part (a majority, I think) of the gulf is still the Gulf of Mexico. It seems like the area should be drawn as two adjacent gulfs, the Gulf of America to the North and East, and the Gulf of Mexico to the South and West.

(Not debating the merits, just pondering mapping details.)

[AlotOfReading]

This depends on whether it's a regional name applied to the body of water or a specific name applied to the territorial waters within the greater region encompassed by the original name. Google has chosen to regard it as a regional name applied to the entire body rather than as a specific name for territorial waters implied by the EO. They do this for other regionalized names like "South China Sea" (e.g. "East Sea" in Vietnam).

[losvedir]

I was surprised to learn when living in Bahrain that what I knew of as the "Persian Gulf", is there known as the "Arabian Gulf". Only tangentially relevant, but kind of interesting.

[walthamstow]

I get "Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)" on a Japanese connection.

This stuff is obviously pointless and silly but it's nothing new. I'm sure Google Maps shows UK and French users different names for what I would call the English Channel.

[JumpCrisscross]

> obviously pointless and silly

Ironically, it’s the same language policing that got the left in trouble. We have better things to do with our lives than keep a running tally of the right and wrong names for things.

[kenhwang]

I see Gulf of America when it's zoomed in, but Gulf of Mexico when zoomed very out or very very in.

[mytailorisrich]

France tends to be oblivious to name changes. Beijing is still "Pekin", Turkiye is still "Turquie", "Kyiv" is "Kiev", etc. because "this is how it's called in French" and they don't care what other countries/languages do.

[chrsw]

Like another poster on this topic said, it's not pointless or silly. It's a demonstration of power.

[oneeyedpigeon]

> I'm sure Google Maps shows UK and French users different names for what I would call the English Channel.

It would be interesting to see what it shows people outside of UK and France.

[Dudelander]

It's more or less a loyalty test. Are you going to use the correct term, or Trump's term. Which side are you on?

[Eddy_Viscosity2]

I think every country should call it "Gulf of country", in France they direct all map providers to call it the Gulf of France, in Australia, they call it the Gulf of Australia, and so on.

[Sparyjerry]

That's actually hilarious, but America also stands for North America and South America. Gulf of The United States doesn't quite ring the same.

[ryandvm]

Honestly, this would be the funniest possible outcome.

[sethd]

Discussion of this issue on OpenStreetMap forum: https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/gulf-of-america-gulf-o...

[swah]

I really enjoyed the "joke" the other day where some standup guy said that we have the tech now to make everyone happy: just show this part on Google Maps as China to this set of people and Taiwan to this other set of people etc etc

[ChrisArchitect]

Related:

Just searched Google Maps for Mt. Denali, Alaska only for it to return results for Mount McKinley immediately. Note I'm not really sure if that's anything to do with an executive order or that it was Alaskans wanting it called Denali while many elsewhere in the country incl at the Federal level called it McKinley.

[TheJoeMan]

I think if you're bragging to your buddies you summited Denali it has a much more air of mystery than "I climbed McKinley".

[nonrandomstring]

I think the gulf of America is in Washington right now.

[gazook89]

I was wanting a graphic t shirt with a skull in be style of a topographic map, with the empty space between the ears labeled as the Gulf of America. Alas, I have art skills and didn’t want to fuss with midjourney for a result half way there only to realize I wasn’t ever goiing to pull the trigger.

[tonymet]

Washingtonians prefer we use Washington for the state and DC for the Federal District of Columbia.

[cratermoon]

Whatever you do, don't right click on the map and select "Report a data problem".

[acc_297]

Someone's already made a chrome extension to search+replace "Gulf of America" to "Gulf of Mexico" in online text I don't think it works for google maps place titles but no doubt someone will fix that.

It's a new level of public-but-divided space when we all start running client side software to reinforce our world view. I'm certainly not criticizing that chrome extension I think that is funny, but it's also something to think on.

[NicuCalcea]

It's not a new level at all, these extensions have existed since shortly after extensions started existing.

A few examples:

https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/trump-dog/bdhcfpbga...

https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/tralalump/epclgaegl...

https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/cloud-to-butt-plus/...

[insane_dreamer]

Just refreshed Apple Maps on my phone, and it also shows Gulf of America where over the weekend it was still Gulf of Mexico.

[bdangubic]

refresh on Canada too, it’ll shown North American 51st State :)

[Xunjin]

A question, does the executive order (if it was actually signed by the President) have the "law power" to actually oblige Google Maps to make this change?

If not, is this correct following USA law? Also is this matter being questioned in superior Justice instances?

[silverquiet]

Growing up I was told of the fable of "The Emperor's New Clothes" on occasion. I always found it ridiculous, but in the last decade it has been quite relevant. As a kid, I thought it was about the ridiculousness of the Emperor, but I've come around to the understanding that it's about how power creates its own reality.

[dannyw]

Google’s policy of not playing individualised politics is to treat these things consistently and not apply its own judgement.

[pyrale]

> A question, does the executive order (if it was actually signed by the President) have the "law power" to actually oblige Google Maps to make this change?

Coercion isn't required when sycophants are eager to cooperate.

[paulcole]

> If not, is this correct following USA law?

Why wouldn’t it be? What’s stopping them from calling it Gulf of Google if they want to?

Trump isn’t forcing Google to do anything. They use a database for their place names and use what is in that database.

[bee_rider]

I mean this is all dumb chest thumping. But, doesn’t it make us look smaller to name the gulf after us?

When it was the Gulf of Mexico, it was named from our point of view. It was the gulf, among our many gulfs, that we share with Mexico. Now, by the same logic it is named from their point of view.

[sparrish]

It's not named after 'us'.

All those in America (South, North, Central) are called Americans.

I spent several years in Paraguay where I met a lot of South Americans.

Mexicans are North Americans and the 'Gulf of America' is more inclusive considering 1/2 of the land mass touching it belongs to the US.

[dingaling]

> it was named from our point of view.

Actually it was named from the perspective of Spanish explorers. Originally Gulf of New Spain but by 1569 had become Gulf of Mexico.

[octocop]

In Sweden it shows both. "Mexikanska Golfen(Amerikanska Golfen)"

[doener]

Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42859580

[egypturnash]

Well that's Google Maps deleted off my phone then.

[gritspartan]

To be fair to Google, they are simply following a policy they've had since 2008. There is a similar issue with the Sea of Japan/East Sea.

[jasperr1]

Seems a little harsh. What app do you plan on switching to?

[benatkin]

I downgraded my apps for domains plan. I’m not sure it was inevitable, and even so, Google seemed to be in a rush to do it.

[npteljes]

What have you used it for, and what do you migrate to?

[racl101]

It shows "Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)" in Canada (aka The soon-to-be 51st State).

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[jeffbee]

Considering the relative populations of states, shouldn't Canada be at least 10-20 states?

[francisofascii]

Greenland and Gaza are next. Canada has to wait in line.

[Hizonner]

It's showing up in parentheses outside of the US.

How about if we all compromise on Gulf of Donald Trump Can your-favorite-letters-here?

[LimeLimestone]

What's next? Will New Mexico be called New America? /s

[tonymet]

So many points of interest have been renamed in the past 20 years. I'm expecting the same level of endorsement for those renamings to carry over to this one.

[PaulDavisThe1st]

Tell us a few, let's see what we think.

[amazingamazing]

Gulf of America is a more inclusive name anyway since both USA and Mexico are part of North America, but since it's Trump everyone hates it. People can't really even articulate what's wrong with it in a vacuum without mentioning Trump.

I don't even like Trump, but this "renaming" is neutral at worst, inclusive at best.

[AlotOfReading]

If you read the executive order, it's not about inclusivity and the term America does not refer to the continent. Quoting the order, it's to "honor the contributions of visionary and patriotic Americans in our Nation’s rich past".

The term "Gulf of Mexico" has been in common use for over 400 years, long before the US was even a thing. No one had a legitimate problem with the name.

[dc3k]

> Gulf of America is a more inclusive name anyway since both USA and Mexico are part of North America

gulf of america is not more inclusive. the "renaming" was not meant to be inclusive, it was very clearly meant to be divisive.

this is a similar argument to one often used when people call canadians americans: "umm, ackshully, canada is in north america, so it's correct to call them americans"

and of course the flaw in that argument is that literally nobody on earth considers canadians to be americans except people on the internet trying to sound smart.

[stahtops]

"People hate it" because the motivation for it is xenophobia

[gritspartan]

There are two other countries which have coastlines on the Gulf of Mexico. They are Cuba and Mexico. Neither of them call it the Gulf of America. The name is not inclusive, even when you leave out Trump's intentions.

[darknavi]

I'm not sure what "(North) America" means and what Trump thinks "America" means are the same thing.

[beart]

The counter reaction is strong as well. I don't agree with this so I must just hate Trump, right? It's a feedback loop in both directions.

Frankly I just think it's a waste of time and energy. I'm referring both to the original action, as well as the continuing ramp up of divisiveness.

[freehorse]

TIL that when Trump was saying "make america great again" he was actually talking about mexico

[xp84]

I find the reaction to this to be interesting, because it's obviously arbitrary, and there are thousands of geographical features whose names vary widely between countries, and not only for the obvious language reasons. So, each country clearly has the right to call international water bodies whatever they want. Personally, I don't care what it's called, but the new name is fine.

But because Trump did it, some Americans find this inherently problematic, in a way I doubt anyone would have if that had happened to be the name given 300 years ago. And I doubt any Mexican ever felt the old name was inappropriate.

If anyone has an argument that I'm missing something in this assessment, I'm happy to listen.

[tmpz22]

The rational take is to understand it within the context of recent expansionist rhetoric which includes the annexation of Canada, strong-arm purchase of Greenland, and conquest of Gaza and Panama.

You don't have to go that far back in a history book to understand the dangers of expansionist rhetoric in a globalist world and how it is directly against American interests to threaten war with our neighbors and allies.

Threatening war with neighbors and allies is not a Christian thing to do.

[kylehotchkiss]

I think there's a habit amongst people who didn't vote for trump to catastrophize his every move, which helps him by distracting people from maybe the more consequential decisions he makes. Interestingly he didn't name it the Gulf of USA, the Gulf of the United States, the Gulf of Florida or The Gulf of Freedom and Bald Eagles, but after the continent itself, which Mexico is in fact a part of.

What's the expression... "don't take the bait"? There are far worse things happening in the White House for people on both sides of the aisle right now.

[packymcclone]

Not sure if this works as an argument, but in this case Google added the new US name even in international versions of Maps as a secondary name. That does feel a bit odd.

[throwaway5752]

What was the rationale to do it. Was it in the name of accuracy? Does it further US national interests or have any other benefit?

[oneeyedpigeon]

> each country clearly has the right to call international water bodies whatever they want

Sure, but the USA has no more right than any other country to enforce its name on the rest of us, and no right at all to enforce a name for space it does not own.

[dijksterhuis]

> If anyone has an argument that I'm missing something in this assessment, I'm happy to listen.

Hi, British person here. Yeah, we have a bit of, ahem, experience, of showing up to places and just changing place names and stuff because "it's just better that way... according to us". Generally speaking, people didn't like it. Factor in the statements about taking over Canada/Greenland/Palestine/Panama for USA's own personal gains, regardless of whether they are negotiating positions or not, and it sure seems similar to what we used to do "back in the day". You didn't like it when we did it to you. I'm not surprised other people aren't liking it when it either is being done by the USA, or even just appears to be being done as a result of some "negotiating position".

> I doubt any Mexican ever felt the old name was inappropriate.

There's at least one Mexican who believes the old name was appropriate. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cvg6gndgl1ro

> it's obviously arbitrary

If it's arbitrary, why is there a need to change it in the first place? it doesn't matter. it's a body of water. who cares what the name is. we could call it 75928ajfh3845.

so why the need to change it in the first place? (cough see first point cough)

[stevage]

>But because Trump did it, some Americans find this inherently problematic,

It's not "because Trump did it".

It's very unusual for geographic place names to be renamed at the whim of a single politician. It's extremely unusual for it to happen by fiat, so quickly. It's absolutely unheard of for a feature so large, and shared by more than one country, to be renamed in this way in the modern era.

[chuckadams]

I hate it, it represents the ugly stupid jingoism of the times … but it is the “official” name now, so I can hardly fault Google for updating the name. Myself, I’m calling it the Gulf of Fuck Trump, but a lot of things are going to get that name in my house.

[JumpCrisscross]

> because Trump did it, some Americans find this inherently problematic

Paired with the tariffs on Mexico and Canada, I think it’s more a reaction to what it says about America’s view towards its neighbours.

American power is overwhelming. Theoretically, it should have been balanced by now. It hasn’t because we’ve been a good steward of our alliances. “Gulf of America,” Mare Nostrum; at what point does it become rational for Mexico to seek a security guarantor against America?

“Speak softly, and carry a big stick.” Xi forgot the first part and may have squandered what ought to have been China’s century on account of it. The pushback to a needlessly-provocative imperialesque renaming is American society doing what China’s couldn’t.

(Broadly, I agree with your point. A lot of people are perpetually on Defcon 1. The renaming is dumb. But it isn’t going to undermine America.)