Worth noting that the U.S. Digital Service (USDS, i.e the org that DOGE has now subsumed) has for a long while been experts at building and deploying static websites for the federal government. And doing it completely in the open. Within minutes you can literally clone and re-deploy all of httsp://usds.gov — 150MB of 2,700 assets and documents, built on Jekyll — locally or on S3. They've even written out the complete deployment instructions:
I've learned about the USDS in the past on hackernews and was always impressed. If someone wanted to really make a "DOGE" in good-faith (i.e. improve efficiency of government instead of just destroying everything), I think it would look like expanding the power and scope of things like USDS.
I use many SOPs daily. The principle is that if you can forget everything about it but the name, obtain the documentation, and relearn it, you should do about the same thing as without.
Though you can find SOPs similar to modern from 1950s USSR docs, the U.S. Navy ones like folding SOP or military shower SOP are especially pragmatic.
But that’s only useful if the incoming people in charge don’t have any contempt towards existing employees and want to leverage best practices instead of pretending that they know better. Twitter had the same problem after Elon took over.
Does anyone want to talk about the hack itself? Can anyone give more details than "left their database open"? I came to this site hoping for a real discussion about that and didn't see it here yet...
Looks like they started posting sole data - not sure what FPDS is but the documents all look rendered in OSX aqua theme lol.
A lot of cuts looks “sensical” at first, until you realize things like “cutting magazine subscriptions” are more like “cutting financial news sources off from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau” or “not renewing reputable news subscriptions for people who really need to understand current events”.
And then there’s a lot of DEI/diversity training cuts which feel targeted not at their war on Actually Being Nice to People, but at the groups those trainings help employees serve - cutting DEI for SNAP…so, there’s a reported (haven’t verified but allegedly from USDA data) 5 ethnic groups, as well as “race unknown”, that are enrolled in SNAP. Now imagine how you’d train people to understand, interact with, and help people in different ethnic backgrounds _who need this assistance_. I believe empathy and understanding are incredibly good skills to have in a role like this, and DEI helps train that - for all involved.
The going notion on the right is that DEI is racist, and against white people, but it leaves out the idea that anyone non-white might also need this training? Like, DEI is about understanding differences, and then the right reads it as “understanding non-whites” and get offended that they even have to think about other cultures.
And another cut funding for training on gender, and that training was for an office involved in tech and engineering…a professional field notoriously male-dominant for a long time. Again, it makes sense to me that this kind of training would be good, because I’ve heard the way people in tech talk and act towards women and queer folx, so yeah let’s have some training.
These kinds of programs aren’t meant to tell people what to think - if they can’t empathetically interact with the world, work training won’t change that - but it will tell them that in a professional capacity they need to know how to interact and be productive. In business this is so you make more money, in government it’s how you help more people - including your own employees and also the communities you serve.
So Trump is doing what he said, and the details are grim.
> Maybe they should fire these kids and replace them with REAL engineers.
Nah, they'll want reasonable pay, reasonable hours, and won't confuse their boss for a living god. They may even have some self-confidence and morals, which would be a total deal breaker.
Does anyone else see what’s really going on here? Naming a “government agency” after a meme coin? Wearing a hat in the Oval Office while talking over the (literally) sitting president? Elon is attempting to telegraph that he has no respect for the institutions of our country. Why do you think Trump did something as petty as renaming the Gulf of Mexico? It’s a litmus test to see who will follow his most inane power plays. Today, it was put into action when they banned the AP from the Oval Office and AF1 for not bending the knee on this issue. This is far darker than Elon just running amok.
This is so much worse than 9-11, so, so much worse. Maybe the first tower still has yet to fall, maybe the fireball has faded and the firefighter are climbing the stairs and you think they'll soon be able to rescue you, but the fire is burning white hot under the surface and the steel getting hotter and softer by the minute.
You do not need to look far at all to find tiny changes made by past administrations that have had massive unforeseen consequences. We are absolutely cooked.
America's entrepreneurial spirits have worked up a persecution complex and want their revenge. They will implement protectionist policy, push on spending cuts before tax reforms ("look at what we saved!") and then expect the market to climb while they liquidate their hundred-billion dollar portfolios and move to an island to retire.
At least, that's the theory. I don't think America wants to admit that the CCP has their industrial capacity by the balls and can direct it with centralized planning to displace America's EV market or naval tonnage at will. There's an assumption that deregulation will finally be the panacea to America's issues, but we can't pursue that consistent with a policy of global trade. We can't sanction the ICC and demand other countries extradite their criminals to the US. We can't abandon the Human Rights Council and then demand other countries respect our moral authority.
It's going to be another 4 years of the civilized world proving they don't need America. And Trump is going to spend it flattering dictators abroad while everyone else taps their foot waiting for another primary. Stagnation is a best case scenario, a-la 2016 - our saving grace is that most of America's serious adversaries are also hurting quite a bit right now. Trump sitting in the Nixon or Regan seat would have been game-over for America.
Every other intelligence agency on the planet is about to scoop a ton of American data via cyber and basic HUMINT. It's free for all out there, I guess.
I am wondering if it would have been more of an effect to
instead of this add some DEI trolling ... April 1st level of foolery so people think it is real and then get Twitter riled up on it.
DOGE is a complete farce, but I think there's an important to not just write this off as a stage show and the people buying into it as idiots. There are a lot of people who feel that government isn't working for them and so when they see things like "8 million dollars spent on condoms for Palestinians" they're already primed to get angry about it. Musk/DOGE's actions may all be for spectacle, but he's tapping into some very real emotions that he wouldn't be able to tap into if people felt the government was working for them. DOGE is a symptom of a larger problem. Even if Musk and DOGE are completely discredited, if we don't figure out a way to make it so the average citizen feels like they're getting their money's worth from the government, it's just a matter of time until someone else steps in to exploit that feeling for their own gain.
The numbers they claim to save are like trying to turn your household budget around by cutting out a weekly latte.
If you really want to make big financial changes, you need a lot more income, or cut serious costs - like a car payment or downsize your house. In the case of DOGE, I haven't seen them touch DoD or any of the massive medical programs, etc.
They are doing tremendous damage for something that is supposed to be a stage show. Among everything they've done over the past three weeks, HUD is being gutted as we speak and the company a friend works at lost $100 million in contracts practically overnight.
it may be a stage show, but it has real consequences. A huge number of NIH grants awards have not gone out. Already, I am facing a 15% shortfall in my budget from a grant that was all set to be awarded. This is not tenable kind of behavior form a major institution, and DOGE dog and pony show disgusts me.
Trump/Elon fascism/heroism (depending on your point of view) aside, one thing that concerns me is how quickly is it possible to decide that 1000 employees at a place like the Department of Energy, including 300 at the National Nuclear Security Administration, can be dismissed without any impact on the effectiveness of these agencies.
Even if you do believe that these agencies are bloated with workers who are doing "unnecessary" work, which is possible, it seems very unprudent to make cuts so quickly. And who is qualified to make these decisions? Elon? Some Tesla or SpaceX engineer who wrote some code and put up a website? Come on. WTF do they know about how all these agencies operate and the downstream effects? You think they're taking the time to really think it through?
Now it's possible that prior to taking office, Trump had people with deep understanding of government operations go through everything, and really think things through, and prepare a list of jobs that could be cut without any impact, but if that is the case, it's never been said. Given who Trump has around him to lead these agencies (McMahon for Dept of Ed? An Oil and Gas Lobbyist for BLM? Really?) that doesn't seem likely.
Move fast and break things works fine for a start-up, and might even be fine for more cultural type stuff ("DEI"), but Dept of Energy?
It's like firing two-thirds of your sysadmins because "well, we haven't had any issues with our servers lately, and no breaches, so those people must not be needed".
[+] [-] zoelow|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] danso|1 year ago|reply
https://github.com/usds/website
[+] [-] muglug|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] ks2048|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] Xen9|1 year ago|reply
I use many SOPs daily. The principle is that if you can forget everything about it but the name, obtain the documentation, and relearn it, you should do about the same thing as without.
Though you can find SOPs similar to modern from 1950s USSR docs, the U.S. Navy ones like folding SOP or military shower SOP are especially pragmatic.
[+] [-] ivewonyoung|1 year ago|reply
From the docker file:
[+] [-] caycep|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] TheGRS|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] darth_avocado|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] Brendinooo|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] nxobject|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] asynchronousx|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] croes|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] itronitron|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] croes|1 year ago|reply
https://www.doge.gov/savings
Now it says "Receipts coming over the weekend!"
Next time it's: The site is receipt-ready
[+] [-] jimkleiber|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] phatskat|1 year ago|reply
A lot of cuts looks “sensical” at first, until you realize things like “cutting magazine subscriptions” are more like “cutting financial news sources off from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau” or “not renewing reputable news subscriptions for people who really need to understand current events”.
And then there’s a lot of DEI/diversity training cuts which feel targeted not at their war on Actually Being Nice to People, but at the groups those trainings help employees serve - cutting DEI for SNAP…so, there’s a reported (haven’t verified but allegedly from USDA data) 5 ethnic groups, as well as “race unknown”, that are enrolled in SNAP. Now imagine how you’d train people to understand, interact with, and help people in different ethnic backgrounds _who need this assistance_. I believe empathy and understanding are incredibly good skills to have in a role like this, and DEI helps train that - for all involved.
The going notion on the right is that DEI is racist, and against white people, but it leaves out the idea that anyone non-white might also need this training? Like, DEI is about understanding differences, and then the right reads it as “understanding non-whites” and get offended that they even have to think about other cultures.
And another cut funding for training on gender, and that training was for an office involved in tech and engineering…a professional field notoriously male-dominant for a long time. Again, it makes sense to me that this kind of training would be good, because I’ve heard the way people in tech talk and act towards women and queer folx, so yeah let’s have some training.
These kinds of programs aren’t meant to tell people what to think - if they can’t empathetically interact with the world, work training won’t change that - but it will tell them that in a professional capacity they need to know how to interact and be productive. In business this is so you make more money, in government it’s how you help more people - including your own employees and also the communities you serve.
So Trump is doing what he said, and the details are grim.
[+] [-] petargyurov|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] tolmasky|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] 4ndrewl|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] bufferoverflow|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] deadbabe|1 year ago|reply
And I know some of those kids probably read Hackernews, so here’s the advice: put away ChatGPT and learn what the fuck you’re doing.
[+] [-] palmotea|1 year ago|reply
Nah, they'll want reasonable pay, reasonable hours, and won't confuse their boss for a living god. They may even have some self-confidence and morals, which would be a total deal breaker.
[+] [-] guywithahat|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] anigbrowl|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] aqueueaqueue|1 year ago|reply
1. Good experienced engineer
2. Without ethics
3. Happy to be paid below market rate of a good experienced engineer without ethics.
[+] [-] IAmGraydon|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] braebo|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] throw__away7391|1 year ago|reply
You do not need to look far at all to find tiny changes made by past administrations that have had massive unforeseen consequences. We are absolutely cooked.
[+] [-] ModernMech|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] talldayo|1 year ago|reply
At least, that's the theory. I don't think America wants to admit that the CCP has their industrial capacity by the balls and can direct it with centralized planning to displace America's EV market or naval tonnage at will. There's an assumption that deregulation will finally be the panacea to America's issues, but we can't pursue that consistent with a policy of global trade. We can't sanction the ICC and demand other countries extradite their criminals to the US. We can't abandon the Human Rights Council and then demand other countries respect our moral authority.
It's going to be another 4 years of the civilized world proving they don't need America. And Trump is going to spend it flattering dictators abroad while everyone else taps their foot waiting for another primary. Stagnation is a best case scenario, a-la 2016 - our saving grace is that most of America's serious adversaries are also hurting quite a bit right now. Trump sitting in the Nixon or Regan seat would have been game-over for America.
[+] [-] EvanKnowles|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] JKCalhoun|1 year ago|reply
This for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43051135
(EDIT: Looks like others are wondering too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43050833)
[+] [-] gvx|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] cyberlimerence|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] fecal_henge|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] aqueueaqueue|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] rainforest|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] tjpnz|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] linuxhansl|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] superfrank|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] mikepurvis|1 year ago|reply
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2025/02/doge-as-a-nat...
[+] [-] softwaredoug|1 year ago|reply
If you really want to make big financial changes, you need a lot more income, or cut serious costs - like a car payment or downsize your house. In the case of DOGE, I haven't seen them touch DoD or any of the massive medical programs, etc.
[+] [-] enraged_camel|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] SubiculumCode|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] NewJazz|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] insane_dreamer|1 year ago|reply
Even if you do believe that these agencies are bloated with workers who are doing "unnecessary" work, which is possible, it seems very unprudent to make cuts so quickly. And who is qualified to make these decisions? Elon? Some Tesla or SpaceX engineer who wrote some code and put up a website? Come on. WTF do they know about how all these agencies operate and the downstream effects? You think they're taking the time to really think it through?
Now it's possible that prior to taking office, Trump had people with deep understanding of government operations go through everything, and really think things through, and prepare a list of jobs that could be cut without any impact, but if that is the case, it's never been said. Given who Trump has around him to lead these agencies (McMahon for Dept of Ed? An Oil and Gas Lobbyist for BLM? Really?) that doesn't seem likely.
Move fast and break things works fine for a start-up, and might even be fine for more cultural type stuff ("DEI"), but Dept of Energy?
It's like firing two-thirds of your sysadmins because "well, we haven't had any issues with our servers lately, and no breaches, so those people must not be needed".