Word of advice, as someone who's had lots, and I mean lots, of injuries: past the initial cooling down of the injured part of your body, rest is not going to heal shit, most probably. Stretching and working out the area will. I've recovered from injuries some people would've had surgeries on, by taking this principle into practice. Look up isolation exercises if you can't seem to figure them out on your own, but work that part of your body exhaustively.
Oh, and since the author of the blog post mentions "tennis elbow": I healed mine doing unilateral triceps extensions with a kettlebell. I naturally felt that it was the most straightforward and efficient exercise, just by messing around with the weights. It took around two weeks to heal completely, and I had it bad on both elbows (judo practice and pull-ups with bad form will do that, yeah).
Some nuance: the right kind of stretching and working out will heal the injury. The optimal way to do this is to work with a physical or occupational therapist to develop the right set of exercises for the issue. Adherence to the exercise plan is essential to recovery. I have learned this the hard way as a procrastinator.
Indeed, rest alone will most likely result in a chronic issue that one can live with. But these injuries can be remedied even years later with the right physical therapy— it is rarely too late to make a change.
Example: nerve damage requires some unintuitive solutions that are difficult to isolate on YouTube or other resources (due to high volumes of quackery).
I've had issues with tennis elbow for pretty much a year now. I didn't rest at all in the beginning and simply toned down the intensity of my exercise. But gradually it became worse, until I had no choice but to take a break. First just a week, but it came back a couple weeks later, then two weeks, then a month and so on. Now I took an extended break of a couple of months. While resting might not be the answer (and I agree very often rest is the opposite of what you need), exercise certainly isn't always the answer either. If things were as easy as you think, everyone would already share your opinion.
Unfortunately I also have a very bad knee (osteoarthritis) and on some days I cannot walk from one room to the next without clutching every solid piece of furniture around me. Just recently, after years, I learned that it was movement that helped me most in such states. Of course I can barely walk and walking makes it noticably worse, but biking actually helps me quite a bit and rapidly improves my mobility and general well-being. But you kind of have to have the insight that moving is what you need, when you can barely move at all - and only certain kinds of movements too!
These issues are as complicated as anything else. Sometimes rest is necessary and sometimes certain movements are most beneficial. It's difficult to know. And rest is not a bad default, because while it might not help you, it rarely hurts you much worse. Training the wrong muscle when it shouldn't be trained can do some damage you might regret dearly for a long time.
I think a lot of people get in trouble with pain from pull-ups. I love the exercise, but I no longer just walk up to the bar when I am in the mood. I first do a set or two on some resistance bands I attached to a ceiling, to warm up. They give about 35 pounds of resistance.
I weigh over 200 pounds. I would never walk up to a weight bar and military press 200 pounds cold. I regret that I used to walk up to a pull up bar and pull down with 200 pounds of force cold, I think it caused me shoulder trouble that was made worse by long days of intense keyboard/mouse work, and the caffeine in one or two cups of coffee per day.
> Take it from this old gym rat, I've spent my entire adult life in the gym, and a program like this one can do more harm than good.
Well that's not exactly what was written above but I read it in the same way.
Dear reader, if you want my advice instead; the internet advice of random posters is great for finding new ideas but little else.
I happen to have a glut of experience with injury, recovery and pain too. Whether or not a particular injury needs rest or exercise depends on very many factors and expert physicians will differ.
I suffered from chronic neck and shoulder pain for years. I had a cervical fusion surgery. I had a labral repair surgery. Neither improved my symptoms at all.
I slept maybe 3-4 hours per night for ~7 years.
Then one day I saw someone on Hacker News mention Dr. Sarno's book, and it changed my life.
I convinced myself that the pain was all in my mind. I'm still not 100% symptom free, but I now have far more good days than I do bad days.
I read all of his books and I try to re-read the first one at least once per year.
It become convenient for me to blame my problems on my chronic pain. I fixed all of that by simply changing the way I thought about the pain.
Now, whenever I feel the pain flaring up, I just make myself focus on my breathing rather than focusing on the pain. And then I simply forget about the pain.
> Then one day I saw someone on Hacker News mention Dr. Sarno's book, and it changed my life.
I learned of Dr Sarno from HN several years ago. I bought 2 books of his, and did my best to implement what he wrote.
It made no improvement to my pain (very similar pain as the author).
I definitely don't mean to turn people away from Sarno's treatments. I have definitely met folks who have never heard of Sarno, but whose pain evolution and eventual management aligns with what Sarno has in his book, so if you do have that type of pain definitely check it out.
Does he talk about exercising while in pain at all? This has been something that really worked for me after tearing my achilles. After 8 months it still felt irritated 24/7 and I was terrified of re-injury, but ramping up the intensity of my ankle/calf exercises started to make it better. The harder exercises were probably having a minimal impact on strength, but they were having a huge effect on convincing my brain that the area was fine and it could drop its obsession with it.
Exactly the same as me except more general health anxiety symptoms that turned into real painful symptoms. I learnt about Dr Sarno from Dan's channel on YouTube Pain Free You. So glad you found similar!
If anyone is suffering from chronic pain that is referred pain from the neck and shoulders, are you sleeping on a memory foam mattress?
I "upgraded" to a Casper mattress in 2019 and it took 5 years of debilitating referred pain and headaches, and attempted resolutions including a 12-level spinal fusion, to realize that the mattress was the cause.
Switched back to a more traditional spring mattress and the pain faded within about 3 weeks.
Easily the worst and most trying experience of my life which will have lasting effects on the remainder of my life - never in a million years would I have expected that the mattress was the cause.
I'd also recommend sleeping on the floor with a couple sheets and pillows. Sounds like it should be uncomfortable, and it is for a bit, but after a while your body just adapts with postures that do wonders for spinal relaxation and relief from some back/neck pains. IANAD.
When I was in high school my mother bought me some ridiculously expensive futon. One of the western ones which are largely just layers of cotton with a thin layer of pillowing on top.
I had other issues sleeping at that time, but comfort was never one of them. And later on, when it became her guest bedroom, visiting home would often relieve my pain in a couple nights of sleep.
Her elderly aunt came to visit, and my mother had the mattress "upgraded" with a 6 inch foam \ pillow topper. I cant sleep on it. It causes me physical pain and distress. Eventually she replaced the mattress too, and now its just a ridiculously thick piece of foam and pillow. My spine relaxes to some kind of crazy bend when I am on it. I wake up feeling like I spent all night in a boxing match.
I’m glad you’ve gotten relief, and really sorry you tried all those other things first. Did you happen to try a latex mattress? They seem “foamy” but they are much more like spring mattresses than they are like memory foam. Basically the more compression it is under, the more resistance there is, exponentially, whereas memory foam compresses linearly. My wife and I switched to Latex and it made a massive difference in our sleep quality and how we feel afterward. The memory foam mattress made us hot and made my back hurt really bad. Now I wake up and I feel refreshed, and I sleep an hour less but get the same quality of deep sleep as before. You may not want to tamper with anything since you’ve found a solution, but I wanted to mention it because it does give more pressure relief than an inner spring but with more support than memory foam. They’re expensive and heavy though.
Been on memory foam since 2011. "Upgraded" to a $3k traditional mattress in 2021. My pain became unbearable after 6 mo. Since my old mattress was disposed of, I bought a $300 memory foam mattress from Wayfair and it resolved my issues.
I bought a Purple mattress because I thought it would fix my back and neck pain and it has only made it worse. I will also be going back to a more traditional spring mattress soon.
If a memory foam mattress makes a person's pain worse, how does it do that -- or how does a different type of mattress avoid doing that? (honest question)
I've had similar symptoms since college, and they continually worsened for a long time while I ignored them. After a few years of trying different solutions and doctors, I've found a satisfactory set of treatments.
The only Orthopaedic doctor with impactful advice happened to have a daughter with the same issue. Loose ligaments required stabilizer muscles to work overtime. Her solution: supported strength training exercises to build up the larger muscles so they can compensate. For the next 6 months, I worked out 5 times a week, and the symptoms practically disappeared. I was able to work 8 hours at my computer with very little strain - compared to just 30 minutes at the start. The symptoms returned about a month after falling out of the routine.
Other treatments that helped:
Ergonomics - I use the Logitech ergonomic keyboard and vertical mouse. These have been great. I avoid using the mouse as much as possible, and use keyboard shortcuts + vimium browser extension to navigate.
Compression Gloves - Just like the author, I also found that long sleeves help somewhat. But not nearly as much as the cheap, fingerless compression gloves I get off Amazon. Between these and the ergonomic peripherals, my symptoms are generally under control, so I struggle to find motivation to continue my workouts.
Relaxing Muscles - When using a phone or game remote, support your wrist (and perhaps elbow) on a pillow. Avoid tightening your muscles - this is tricky when playing intense games. Stop doom scrolling.
YMMV, I am not a doctor, these subjects are complicated and actively researched
I had chronic pain in my neck for a couple of years. It started in the pandemic, so the usual guesses were it had something to do with working remote - which meant sitting down more, potentially ergonomic issues, less socializing, etc.
After seeing several doctors, doing all the tests like MRI and CT scans, trying physical therapy and many other conventional and non conventional treatments, the key for me was seeing a pain psychologist. As mentioned in this article, a lot of pain takes place in the mind. Even though we feel it in our bodies, it’s our brain telling us that it’s a problem. After a few months of therapy, the pain was no longer a major facet of my life. After 6 months I felt totally cured and myself again.
The US medical system can be a maze and easily spiral for chronic pain sufferers. I suspect this is an area where we are still learning
A lot of home setups aren't great for working. When I got neck and head pain, I realised that I was looking slightly down at the monitor. Raising it so the top is just above eye level worked wonders.
You also want a desk with a lot of depth; many smaller home desks don't have that. You're often better off with a table than a desk.
I've lived with chronic pain for the last 10 years. Hip, shoulders, lumbar. Have tried just about everything, including minimally invasive surgery. 100s of appointments, over 6 MRIs.
Eventually I came to the conclusion that chronic pain isn't curable. It's our nerves rewiring themselves to constantly send pain, even when no problem exists.
This also gave me peace though. Until I tried everything, I thought my body was breaking down. I'm a very physically active person, who has tried to be proactively healthy their whole life.
Knowing the pain isn't organ or muscle related, but is just fucked up nerves, is consolation. It's not preventing me from doing anything. I still have full range of motion and mobility, it just hurts, but it can't stop me from doing the things I want to do.
So I continue to be active. I have a very high pain tolerance as a result, but I can cope with the pain better than years ago. Last year I hiked the whole 2,600+ miles Pacific Crest Trail despite the pain. Strangely enough, my pain actually mostly disappeared on the trail, but returned after I got home. I think the sudden change of daily habits and sleep conditions may have thrown my nervous system in for a loop.
> Knowing the pain isn't organ or muscle related, but is just fucked up nerves, is consolation. It's not preventing me from doing anything. I still have full range of motion and mobility, it just hurts
I have MS. I have brain lesions. It is just nerves, but they affect mobility for me, because it messes with the communication between the brain and some muscles (and my bladder, leading to incontinence).
So in my case, it is not a relief, to be honest. Unfortunately.
I'm curious, have you lived in the same place this whole time? If the pain came back when you returned home, maybe there is some environmental cause for it, possibly something poorly-understood. I hesitate to even mention any examples because this can be controversial (and murky) territory, but I'm thinking of things like EMF exposure. Maybe you are really sensitive to something like that. Not sure, but could be worth experimenting with different environments and collecting data.
Forearms for me. Best advice I can give for young guns is start preventative breaks/stretches/exercises now. I saw it coming and pushed myself over the edge anyway. I've gotten to a pretty good place with a kinesis keyboard (the cheaper split one ) and some custom foot pedals for Ctrl/Alt/Shift, but have never been the same as before.
Also, lift weights. Squats/deadlifts/bench press. Hasn't helped my arms much but been a game changer for back and neck pain.
I had some upper forearm pain (likely from pullups, but perhaps coding as well) for around 6 months last year, and after a long break from pullups and trying the rice bucket it seems that the pain has subsided.
As my wife, a healthcare provider, likes to say, “motion is lotion!” The body really doesn’t like being in the same static position for long periods, no matter your posture. Breaks & stretches are way more important!
I really appreciate the author posting their experience.
Just to add a little bit of my own experience. I had debilitating nerve pain as a result of surgery complications to the point where I could walk for a bit over a year.
It’s easy to fall into the trap of running from discomfort and making yourself more and more brittle in the process. At the same time it’s really easy to want to skip a few steps and try to jump back into the intensity level you are accustomed to. I think this even applies to coding. Before my surgeries, I could work for several hours straight and feel physically fine. Nowadays if I am physically static for such a long time, my nerve pain will come roaring back.
My main takeaways through all this are two relatively standard words of advice: “Movement is medicine” and that balance is key. Swimming, Pilates, yoga and build up towards more movement heavy lifestyle slowly got me to the point of walking and now being able to do 80% of what I once was able to again, but this time in a more sustainable way.
I've battled a bulged disc in my neck for over a decade. No doctor or physical therapist ever actually said the phrase "bulged disc" to me, by the way, they just talked about a pinched nerve. I refuse to get surgery on my spine, having read about how commonly the results are temporary or worse than the original problem.
This NIH document has finally allowed me to (nearly) fix the problem:
I'm not going to tell you what, specifically, helped me, because every time I mention this the person then tells me that they did what I did, even if it doesn't apply to their body at all. If you read closely, the author details how various parts of the body are stretched in different sleeping positions. If any of these apply to your situation, give it a try.
Is it me or the captions / descriptions don't match the figures?
"In this position the Achilles tendon of the leading foot can be inserted in the gap between the big toe and the first lesser toe to help correct a bunion."
That description is meant for the bottom of fig2 but applies to the top. Same with the penis lying on the thigh.
Similar story for fig1. "Left" actually describes top and "right" describes bottom.
Ironically, chronic pain drove me the other direction.
Programming gave me "I forgot I have a body" levels of engagement with a problem. It was a way to actually find relief from pain. My addiction to programming was very useful in my development.
I was lucky in so many ways. My pain wasn't caused by the kinematics of my body, instead it was a heart condition, cancer, Celiac and Crohn's and I have managed to cure a nontrivial part of it over the years (heart surgery, diet change, immunosuppressants).
Ultimately i do not recommend the "cause yourself so much pain you seek refuge in flow state and become an expert" method. It results in a lot of maladaptive behaviors, damaged relationships and needing a lot of therapy (but also the money to pay for the therapy).
Chronic pain sufferer due to a career where I got beaten up and broken (military) and autoimmune conditions.
Counterintuitively, and for me, being more active helps. If I take a few days off because I'm lazy or tired I invariably get stiff and my pain ratchets up. Stretching twice a day is a huge help; I won't say how long as you have to come up with a routine that works for you. A massage every couple of months can help as well, as I often have spots getting bunched up that are pulling other things out of alignment.
As for treating it, I use non-THC CBD oil, Ibuprofen, and gabapentin when it gets really bad. My doc is currently discussing TNFi's with me for my AI stuff; we shall see if I pursue that.
The bit about non-catastrophizing the condition reminds me of raising children. Often when toddlers fall they will look to the adults in the room for how to react to their fall. If they receive a chorus of "Oh, you poor thing, did you fall? Did you hurt yourself?" and such, they'll start crying and looking for sympathy. But if they get reactions like "Oh, come on and get up, you're fine" they're likely to just get up and get on with their day. Of course, parents should only do this when the little falls on a carpet, kitchen floor, or back lawn. If knees are skinned or you've fallen into a pile of Duplo, it's okay to hurt a little.
I have a rare metabolic disorder which frequently causes some extraordinarily harsh abdominal pain and has done so with increasing frequency, intensity, and so on since I was fifteen, which is to say "most of my life." I am avoiding graduating to hydromorphone (Dilaudid) for as long as I can. My scrupulous avoidance of exacerbating factors can cut down on the situation but not eliminate it. Disability seems to grow closer and closer and I am forced to consider somewhat problematic procedures such as a celiac plexus block (temporarily burning out some nerves so the pain cannot reach the brain) as a method to extend my working lifetime.
Hiding in a flow state and such can be a little useful, for a while. I know what kinds of tasks I can best do when I am only at a five at the scale, which has apparently grown somewhat distorted due to becoming inured to such things.
They say suffering builds character, but they were not specific as to which type of character it builds, because it largely seems to have constructed only bad character for me. Part of me believes that many people -- and therefore society as whole -- could be not only more productive, but possibly better human beings overall. Our civilization, I think, would benefit from trying for solutions, treatments, and the like when it comes to chronic pain.
Pain is weird. The more I learn about it, the less I'm sure of anything to do with it. It's a different subjective experience for everyone. The severity often doesn't correlate to any observable physical insult. It's worse when you're tired or stressed. The biopsychosocial model of pain seems like our current best explanation for why it varies so much between people.
The scientist Lorimer Moseley has some excellent videos on Youtube about pain, recommended for anyone interested.
Did this happen after a known infection of some sort? Does it run in your family? These questions may be important to know the answers to until science gets more tests over the counter as they are fairly close already.
> It slowly consumes you. However, research suggests that catastrophizing can lead to acute pain becoming chronic and that it increases activity in the brain related to anticipation of and attention to pain.
A few years ago after motorcycle accident i broke without knowing a few bone in my leg. The urgency didn't see it despite making scan.
I went out of the hospital a few hours after and back to school, walking on the broken leg for days. Obviously it got worse to the point where my leg was red black from the foot toe to the very top.
After that, the pain came and it was constant, just like the author, but to the point where I couldn't sleep for 2 weeks. I spent days on the sofa in pain, falling asleep every 30 minutes but waking up literally just a few seconds after because of the pain.
A man can take a lot of pain but the kind that is constant and makes you sleep deprived is absolute torture.
I surprised myself of thinking what is the best way to end it all.
Finally, I went to the urgency because it was either that or I was going to end myself.
They gave me morphines over and over, felt good for a few seconds but then it would stop and the pain come back.
At some point I received enough morphine so that I went unconscious, slept for a long time and at wake up it was all gone.
The leg was still completely red, they say I went very close from having a Blood clot kill me but the pain was just completely gone.
My 2 cents, pain is a lot in the head. The more you think about it, the more it consumes you. It's easy to say don't think about it, but it's actually what you got to do.
Hi Thomas, sorry to hear. I'm no doctor but I've had my own share of bad-ergonomic-induced pain so I feel entitled to add my view.
Also I write this to everybody suffering from this kind of pain. It's the raging epidemic of our time.
This all sounds too familiar for fascia as the source of pain. Fascia pain is often described as "nasty". MRT doesn't show problems is also indicative of fascia.
I may say that I saw your profile pic on LI and immediately noticed your hanging shoulders. Slight head-forward-posture also doesn't surprise if I may say so and if I'm not mistaken.
My advice would be, leave the stretching behind. Theraband is an insult for every young healthy individual. I sorted out my problems by training upper limbs with weights (start with 1.5kg dumbbells), resistance band and also the occasional fascia roll aka foam roller.
Let me suggest some reading to get into the matter.
Because posture is what you do most of the time, it is often at the root of joint pain, muscle imbalances, and injuries. On top of that, it tends to worsen with age. If you don’t address posture, you’ll be continually slapping Band-Aids on the problems caused by it. It’s a game you simply can’t win. But you can’t just fix posture by consciously holding yourself differently. It takes structural changes to musculature [...]. It requires a combination of training your body to maintain better posture and consciously working to hold yourself in better positions. [...]. While exercising, you train muscles and movements that improve dynamic posture, and you see a little progress from week to week. It’s a painstakingly slow process, but it works. And it’s worth it.
Same source:
It isn’t the mountain ahead that wears you out - it’s the grain of sand in your shoe.
Good news is that you will get better soon if you start exercising regularly. Bit of a downer is, that it will take about the same amount of time to revert to "pristine" posture as it "took" you to imprint your current posture into your fascia.
Pain from the 50th repetition of a weight lift has far better quality to it than chronic pain.
I've been dealing with chronic pain as well but with my pelvic floor/pudendal nerve. It started in May last year when I was sitting at work when I suddenly felt a strong tingling sensation to go to the bathroom and since then it has developed into a whole array of different symptoms. One of them being leg numbness which affects mostly my left leg. I went to a PT and she told me it could be from sitting too long as well as a lack of exercise and being sedentary. Some symptoms have improved with stretching but I am afraid of going to the gym because doing leg exercises and sometimes spending too much time on the treadmill can cause big flare ups for me. My sleep has also been affected and I wake up even if I do not feel any pain or discomfort.
I am taking more standing breaks now, and I use the gym at my office during lunch time to get some steps in on the treadmill, I also stretch everyday and I feel like it has been helping me heal but it is frustrating that I am not 100% recovered yet.
I really resonate with the "Acceptance" section. I came to a similar realization, that having strong negative emotions about the pain just made everything worse. Stress causes inflammation which doesn't help, and only hurts the situation.
As for actual strategies to manage emotions, I would strongly recommend reading books about REBT (the precursor to CBT) such as "How To Stubbornly Refuse To Make Yourself Miserable About Anything-yes, Anything!" It's honestly been life-changing, and I think a lot of folks here would appreciate the rational approach to adjusting one's beliefs, feelings, and actions. Being able to avoid unnecessary negative emotions, and irrational beliefs that upset you, can be a superpower.
I had a physical therapy session this morning for a neck-shoulder-arm issue that's been bothering me. After years of working at the keyboard, my musculoskeletal system finally gave way. This is a common problem for people who use keyboards extensively, including musicians—so it's something many of us, especially frequent users of this site, can relate to. It's often classified as an occupational injury.
The good news is that with better posture, some equipment adjustments, and a new, slightly less comfortable chair, I've seen significant improvement and am feeling much better. So, I'm optimistic that you'll be on the road to recovery as well. Wishing you the best of luck!
[+] [-] Funes-|1 year ago|reply
Oh, and since the author of the blog post mentions "tennis elbow": I healed mine doing unilateral triceps extensions with a kettlebell. I naturally felt that it was the most straightforward and efficient exercise, just by messing around with the weights. It took around two weeks to heal completely, and I had it bad on both elbows (judo practice and pull-ups with bad form will do that, yeah).
[+] [-] linkregister|1 year ago|reply
Indeed, rest alone will most likely result in a chronic issue that one can live with. But these injuries can be remedied even years later with the right physical therapy— it is rarely too late to make a change.
Example: nerve damage requires some unintuitive solutions that are difficult to isolate on YouTube or other resources (due to high volumes of quackery).
[+] [-] dxuh|1 year ago|reply
Unfortunately I also have a very bad knee (osteoarthritis) and on some days I cannot walk from one room to the next without clutching every solid piece of furniture around me. Just recently, after years, I learned that it was movement that helped me most in such states. Of course I can barely walk and walking makes it noticably worse, but biking actually helps me quite a bit and rapidly improves my mobility and general well-being. But you kind of have to have the insight that moving is what you need, when you can barely move at all - and only certain kinds of movements too!
These issues are as complicated as anything else. Sometimes rest is necessary and sometimes certain movements are most beneficial. It's difficult to know. And rest is not a bad default, because while it might not help you, it rarely hurts you much worse. Training the wrong muscle when it shouldn't be trained can do some damage you might regret dearly for a long time.
[+] [-] bluefirebrand|1 year ago|reply
Rest is not for "healing" it is to avoid re-injuring something already weakened by an injury
This is potentially very reckless advice
[+] [-] BigFnTelly|1 year ago|reply
The 'McGill Big 3' is comprised of 3 core-strengthening exercises that rely on muscular contraction (e.g. planking) over muscular extension (e.g. sit ups, twists). More on that here: https://squatuniversity.com/2018/06/21/the-mcgill-big-3-for-...
[+] [-] BubbleRings|1 year ago|reply
I weigh over 200 pounds. I would never walk up to a weight bar and military press 200 pounds cold. I regret that I used to walk up to a pull up bar and pull down with 200 pounds of force cold, I think it caused me shoulder trouble that was made worse by long days of intense keyboard/mouse work, and the caffeine in one or two cups of coffee per day.
[+] [-] Y_Y|1 year ago|reply
Well that's not exactly what was written above but I read it in the same way.
Dear reader, if you want my advice instead; the internet advice of random posters is great for finding new ideas but little else.
I happen to have a glut of experience with injury, recovery and pain too. Whether or not a particular injury needs rest or exercise depends on very many factors and expert physicians will differ.
[+] [-] hollywood_court|1 year ago|reply
I slept maybe 3-4 hours per night for ~7 years.
Then one day I saw someone on Hacker News mention Dr. Sarno's book, and it changed my life.
I convinced myself that the pain was all in my mind. I'm still not 100% symptom free, but I now have far more good days than I do bad days.
I read all of his books and I try to re-read the first one at least once per year.
It become convenient for me to blame my problems on my chronic pain. I fixed all of that by simply changing the way I thought about the pain.
Now, whenever I feel the pain flaring up, I just make myself focus on my breathing rather than focusing on the pain. And then I simply forget about the pain.
[+] [-] BeetleB|1 year ago|reply
I learned of Dr Sarno from HN several years ago. I bought 2 books of his, and did my best to implement what he wrote.
It made no improvement to my pain (very similar pain as the author).
I definitely don't mean to turn people away from Sarno's treatments. I have definitely met folks who have never heard of Sarno, but whose pain evolution and eventual management aligns with what Sarno has in his book, so if you do have that type of pain definitely check it out.
But don't blame yourself if it doesn't.
[+] [-] ericmcer|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] davzie|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] jasongill|1 year ago|reply
I "upgraded" to a Casper mattress in 2019 and it took 5 years of debilitating referred pain and headaches, and attempted resolutions including a 12-level spinal fusion, to realize that the mattress was the cause.
Switched back to a more traditional spring mattress and the pain faded within about 3 weeks.
Easily the worst and most trying experience of my life which will have lasting effects on the remainder of my life - never in a million years would I have expected that the mattress was the cause.
[+] [-] srik|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] protocolture|1 year ago|reply
I had other issues sleeping at that time, but comfort was never one of them. And later on, when it became her guest bedroom, visiting home would often relieve my pain in a couple nights of sleep.
Her elderly aunt came to visit, and my mother had the mattress "upgraded" with a 6 inch foam \ pillow topper. I cant sleep on it. It causes me physical pain and distress. Eventually she replaced the mattress too, and now its just a ridiculously thick piece of foam and pillow. My spine relaxes to some kind of crazy bend when I am on it. I wake up feeling like I spent all night in a boxing match.
[+] [-] lukevp|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] wnolens|1 year ago|reply
Been on memory foam since 2011. "Upgraded" to a $3k traditional mattress in 2021. My pain became unbearable after 6 mo. Since my old mattress was disposed of, I bought a $300 memory foam mattress from Wayfair and it resolved my issues.
[+] [-] mayhaffs|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] m1n1|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] Just_Josh|1 year ago|reply
The only Orthopaedic doctor with impactful advice happened to have a daughter with the same issue. Loose ligaments required stabilizer muscles to work overtime. Her solution: supported strength training exercises to build up the larger muscles so they can compensate. For the next 6 months, I worked out 5 times a week, and the symptoms practically disappeared. I was able to work 8 hours at my computer with very little strain - compared to just 30 minutes at the start. The symptoms returned about a month after falling out of the routine.
Other treatments that helped:
Ergonomics - I use the Logitech ergonomic keyboard and vertical mouse. These have been great. I avoid using the mouse as much as possible, and use keyboard shortcuts + vimium browser extension to navigate.
Compression Gloves - Just like the author, I also found that long sleeves help somewhat. But not nearly as much as the cheap, fingerless compression gloves I get off Amazon. Between these and the ergonomic peripherals, my symptoms are generally under control, so I struggle to find motivation to continue my workouts.
Relaxing Muscles - When using a phone or game remote, support your wrist (and perhaps elbow) on a pillow. Avoid tightening your muscles - this is tricky when playing intense games. Stop doom scrolling.
YMMV, I am not a doctor, these subjects are complicated and actively researched
[+] [-] samename|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] emmelaich|1 year ago|reply
You also want a desk with a lot of depth; many smaller home desks don't have that. You're often better off with a table than a desk.
[+] [-] ArlenBales|1 year ago|reply
Eventually I came to the conclusion that chronic pain isn't curable. It's our nerves rewiring themselves to constantly send pain, even when no problem exists.
This also gave me peace though. Until I tried everything, I thought my body was breaking down. I'm a very physically active person, who has tried to be proactively healthy their whole life.
Knowing the pain isn't organ or muscle related, but is just fucked up nerves, is consolation. It's not preventing me from doing anything. I still have full range of motion and mobility, it just hurts, but it can't stop me from doing the things I want to do.
So I continue to be active. I have a very high pain tolerance as a result, but I can cope with the pain better than years ago. Last year I hiked the whole 2,600+ miles Pacific Crest Trail despite the pain. Strangely enough, my pain actually mostly disappeared on the trail, but returned after I got home. I think the sudden change of daily habits and sleep conditions may have thrown my nervous system in for a loop.
[+] [-] johnisgood|1 year ago|reply
I have MS. I have brain lesions. It is just nerves, but they affect mobility for me, because it messes with the communication between the brain and some muscles (and my bladder, leading to incontinence).
So in my case, it is not a relief, to be honest. Unfortunately.
[+] [-] marcinreal|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] apitman|1 year ago|reply
Also, lift weights. Squats/deadlifts/bench press. Hasn't helped my arms much but been a game changer for back and neck pain.
[+] [-] LouisSayers|1 year ago|reply
I had some upper forearm pain (likely from pullups, but perhaps coding as well) for around 6 months last year, and after a long break from pullups and trying the rice bucket it seems that the pain has subsided.
Could be worth a try anyway!
https://www.reddit.com/r/kettlebell/comments/1759tyo/elbow_t...
[+] [-] anon7000|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] kianN|1 year ago|reply
Just to add a little bit of my own experience. I had debilitating nerve pain as a result of surgery complications to the point where I could walk for a bit over a year.
It’s easy to fall into the trap of running from discomfort and making yourself more and more brittle in the process. At the same time it’s really easy to want to skip a few steps and try to jump back into the intensity level you are accustomed to. I think this even applies to coding. Before my surgeries, I could work for several hours straight and feel physically fine. Nowadays if I am physically static for such a long time, my nerve pain will come roaring back.
My main takeaways through all this are two relatively standard words of advice: “Movement is medicine” and that balance is key. Swimming, Pilates, yoga and build up towards more movement heavy lifestyle slowly got me to the point of walking and now being able to do 80% of what I once was able to again, but this time in a more sustainable way.
[+] [-] snozolli|1 year ago|reply
This NIH document has finally allowed me to (nearly) fix the problem:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1119282/
I'm not going to tell you what, specifically, helped me, because every time I mention this the person then tells me that they did what I did, even if it doesn't apply to their body at all. If you read closely, the author details how various parts of the body are stretched in different sleeping positions. If any of these apply to your situation, give it a try.
[+] [-] emmelaich|1 year ago|reply
"In this position the Achilles tendon of the leading foot can be inserted in the gap between the big toe and the first lesser toe to help correct a bunion."
That description is meant for the bottom of fig2 but applies to the top. Same with the penis lying on the thigh.
Similar story for fig1. "Left" actually describes top and "right" describes bottom.
[+] [-] Rhapso|1 year ago|reply
Programming gave me "I forgot I have a body" levels of engagement with a problem. It was a way to actually find relief from pain. My addiction to programming was very useful in my development.
I was lucky in so many ways. My pain wasn't caused by the kinematics of my body, instead it was a heart condition, cancer, Celiac and Crohn's and I have managed to cure a nontrivial part of it over the years (heart surgery, diet change, immunosuppressants).
Ultimately i do not recommend the "cause yourself so much pain you seek refuge in flow state and become an expert" method. It results in a lot of maladaptive behaviors, damaged relationships and needing a lot of therapy (but also the money to pay for the therapy).
[+] [-] CobaltFire|1 year ago|reply
Counterintuitively, and for me, being more active helps. If I take a few days off because I'm lazy or tired I invariably get stiff and my pain ratchets up. Stretching twice a day is a huge help; I won't say how long as you have to come up with a routine that works for you. A massage every couple of months can help as well, as I often have spots getting bunched up that are pulling other things out of alignment.
As for treating it, I use non-THC CBD oil, Ibuprofen, and gabapentin when it gets really bad. My doc is currently discussing TNFi's with me for my AI stuff; we shall see if I pursue that.
[+] [-] everybodyknows|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] themadturk|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] at_a_remove|1 year ago|reply
Hiding in a flow state and such can be a little useful, for a while. I know what kinds of tasks I can best do when I am only at a five at the scale, which has apparently grown somewhat distorted due to becoming inured to such things.
They say suffering builds character, but they were not specific as to which type of character it builds, because it largely seems to have constructed only bad character for me. Part of me believes that many people -- and therefore society as whole -- could be not only more productive, but possibly better human beings overall. Our civilization, I think, would benefit from trying for solutions, treatments, and the like when it comes to chronic pain.
[+] [-] ropable|1 year ago|reply
The scientist Lorimer Moseley has some excellent videos on Youtube about pain, recommended for anyone interested.
[+] [-] thenerdhead|1 year ago|reply
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00456-x
Did this happen after a known infection of some sort? Does it run in your family? These questions may be important to know the answers to until science gets more tests over the counter as they are fairly close already.
[+] [-] aucisson_masque|1 year ago|reply
A few years ago after motorcycle accident i broke without knowing a few bone in my leg. The urgency didn't see it despite making scan.
I went out of the hospital a few hours after and back to school, walking on the broken leg for days. Obviously it got worse to the point where my leg was red black from the foot toe to the very top.
After that, the pain came and it was constant, just like the author, but to the point where I couldn't sleep for 2 weeks. I spent days on the sofa in pain, falling asleep every 30 minutes but waking up literally just a few seconds after because of the pain.
A man can take a lot of pain but the kind that is constant and makes you sleep deprived is absolute torture.
I surprised myself of thinking what is the best way to end it all.
Finally, I went to the urgency because it was either that or I was going to end myself.
They gave me morphines over and over, felt good for a few seconds but then it would stop and the pain come back.
At some point I received enough morphine so that I went unconscious, slept for a long time and at wake up it was all gone.
The leg was still completely red, they say I went very close from having a Blood clot kill me but the pain was just completely gone.
My 2 cents, pain is a lot in the head. The more you think about it, the more it consumes you. It's easy to say don't think about it, but it's actually what you got to do.
[+] [-] nakedneuron|1 year ago|reply
Also I write this to everybody suffering from this kind of pain. It's the raging epidemic of our time.
This all sounds too familiar for fascia as the source of pain. Fascia pain is often described as "nasty". MRT doesn't show problems is also indicative of fascia.
I may say that I saw your profile pic on LI and immediately noticed your hanging shoulders. Slight head-forward-posture also doesn't surprise if I may say so and if I'm not mistaken.
My advice would be, leave the stretching behind. Theraband is an insult for every young healthy individual. I sorted out my problems by training upper limbs with weights (start with 1.5kg dumbbells), resistance band and also the occasional fascia roll aka foam roller.
Let me suggest some reading to get into the matter.
Beginner level: Fascial Fitness, Schleip Expert level: Anatomy Trains, Myers
Also: Built From Broken, Hogan
With kind permission, from that book:
Because posture is what you do most of the time, it is often at the root of joint pain, muscle imbalances, and injuries. On top of that, it tends to worsen with age. If you don’t address posture, you’ll be continually slapping Band-Aids on the problems caused by it. It’s a game you simply can’t win. But you can’t just fix posture by consciously holding yourself differently. It takes structural changes to musculature [...]. It requires a combination of training your body to maintain better posture and consciously working to hold yourself in better positions. [...]. While exercising, you train muscles and movements that improve dynamic posture, and you see a little progress from week to week. It’s a painstakingly slow process, but it works. And it’s worth it.
Same source: It isn’t the mountain ahead that wears you out - it’s the grain of sand in your shoe.
Good news is that you will get better soon if you start exercising regularly. Bit of a downer is, that it will take about the same amount of time to revert to "pristine" posture as it "took" you to imprint your current posture into your fascia.
Pain from the 50th repetition of a weight lift has far better quality to it than chronic pain.
[+] [-] guynewton|1 year ago|reply
I am taking more standing breaks now, and I use the gym at my office during lunch time to get some steps in on the treadmill, I also stretch everyday and I feel like it has been helping me heal but it is frustrating that I am not 100% recovered yet.
[+] [-] marcinreal|1 year ago|reply
As for actual strategies to manage emotions, I would strongly recommend reading books about REBT (the precursor to CBT) such as "How To Stubbornly Refuse To Make Yourself Miserable About Anything-yes, Anything!" It's honestly been life-changing, and I think a lot of folks here would appreciate the rational approach to adjusting one's beliefs, feelings, and actions. Being able to avoid unnecessary negative emotions, and irrational beliefs that upset you, can be a superpower.
[+] [-] Vox_Leone|1 year ago|reply
The good news is that with better posture, some equipment adjustments, and a new, slightly less comfortable chair, I've seen significant improvement and am feeling much better. So, I'm optimistic that you'll be on the road to recovery as well. Wishing you the best of luck!